Has anyone tried the Shunyata Diamondback PC?

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>>> have the Diamondback. I don't think it is materially better than what you can get for $10 at Radio Shack."<<<

You are welcome to your opinions about performance, applications, comparisons and suggestions, but your comment about material value is way out of line and grossly misinformed.

First of all, find another power cord that uses 12 gauge wire and has molded connectors. I'll save you the trouble, there are none and there is a reason for that. The molds had to be created from scratch to accommodate a 12 gauge conductor set. The cost to manufacture custom IEC and AC molds for production is between $15k-$20k--each. Do the math. Try amortizing those costs into low-priced power cords over time. There is a reason no one else custom manufactures molded connectors for cords at these prices and its not because they are cheap.

The connectors are gold plated over brass with crimped and soldered connections. The conductors are pure CDA copper and are shielded twice, once with a foil shield, another time with a tinned-copper braided shield. I am not sure which part of that you consider to be cheap radio-shack $10 construction?

The DiamondBacks, Venom and new Venom3 are all UL Listed. Care to guess what maintaining a UL listing costs a company? How many UL listed aftermarket power cords do you see out in the market? That may give you some idea on UL Listing's cost and its complexity to achieve.

The shielded power cords in our line are _extremely_ high cost, low margin products, meaning they cost a great deal to manufacture and maintain and do not represent any reasonable profit for our business. They exist almost solely to get our brand better known and into applications that may not otherwise consider aftermarket cords at higher prices. We pay a premium to make them high quality so that our reputation is maintained even at entry level prices.

>>>" I also agree that the IEC connection is looser than it should be. "<<<

The 15A IEC inlet connections on electronics vary so widely almost no two are alike--which is why we use a C-19 IEC on our power distributors. We chose the most common 15A IEC circumference for the DBack connector but certainly it will not fit the wide variety of different spec connectors the same way. No 15A IEC ever will. We get some complaints they are too loose--which can be worked around and some complaints they are too tight.

With the hundreds of different power cord models out there and the mix & match nature of power cords/conditioners in many systems its no surprise that preferences and recommendations vary so widely. That is expected. There are certainly many choices available, especially on the web.

I understand that. What I don't agree with is pot-shotting products material value with no idea what that cost might actually be. Like them or not, the DiamondBacks are precision made, high-cost items to manufacture. If you think differently, head out and try to copy its spec's and offer it at a better price. I am sure your experience will enlighten your opinion a bit.

Regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research

Hello Ack,

I have no interest in dragging this into the usual bait and switch circular debate, so I'll address your comments and move on. If you want more info, feel free to e-mail or call.

I took the term "materially better" at its literal meaning. If the poster wanted to say "performance", I assume he would have. The word "Material" can only be twisted so much, even here.

>>>"Otherwise, take it as a challenge to provide measurements"<<<

Oh, that old dog. Actually, we have had obvious, compelling measurements for years but saw no need to expose them. We will be posting them soon. Not that this will end debate. It will only change the arguments of those who come here to argue and relieve their stress risk free.

>>>"I use your Sidewinder CXs in my Spectral system which offer absolutely no improvement over the stock,"<<<

You have a mixed system with a great many variables including a variety of other cable, power and filter elements of which the Sidewiinder is one.

Ask Rick Friar what his dealers say about our products matching to his electronics. Almost all Spectral dealers world wide also sell our power products together with Spectral because they match and perform well. Rick knows this. That your experience was not a positive one could relate to any number of variables. It's not worth trying to guess at here.

Once again, you use the older than dirt "miles of wire" saw horse. This means almost nothing in terms of effect on electronics immediate electrical connections and near-field power products impact on performance. I have posted about this before at some length.

And once again yes, you will see posted measurements that are definitive, peer reviewable and repeatable from us in less than one month. Not that this will satisfy those that like to use forums to criticize and argue. In fact, I'm sure they will only inspire more creative arguments from the arm-chair critic crowd.

Regards,

Grant

Mjordanas,

You are correct about the connectors. We did not make schuko AC molds because at the time ('04) Europe was an emerging market and these cords have to be made in enormous runs to get decent pricing. I believe we will try to do this in the future but I cannot say when that will be exactly..

We have our less expensive wire manufactured in enormous runs so the wire cost is reasonable compared to the US labor that hand terminates these products. Certainly, as length exceeds 2m-3m the cost goes up but at the shorter lengths the wire length cost difference is secondary to the power cable hand-assembly cost. Paying close attention to open contact junctions and termination is part of the reason we believe our products perform well.

If you have other questions, or if I can help further please e-mail. I normally only participate to inform or correct misinformation.

Mjordanas,

You are correct about the connectors. We did not make schuko AC molds because at the time ('04) Europe was an emerging market and these cords have to be made in enormous runs to get decent pricing. I believe we will try to do this in the future but I cannot say when that will be exactly..

We have our less expensive wire manufactured in enormous runs so the wire cost is reasonable compared to the US labor that hand terminates these products. Certainly, as length exceeds 2m-3m the cost goes up but at the shorter lengths the wire length cost difference is secondary to the power cable hand-assembly cost. Paying close attention to open contact junctions and termination is part of the reason we believe our products perform well.

If you have other questions, or if I can help further please e-mail. I normally only participate to inform or correct misinformation.

Ok Ack, no one is making up stories so relax. My 'almost all" comment was
made without looking at their site and I did not know Elliot at Innovative was
still a dealer. We are represented by Overture in Delaware and Goodwins in
Boston who are likely two of Spectrals top selling US dealers. We are also
represented by Audio Components Germany and More Music Netherlands who
are two high-volume, committed Spectral distributors. Their network may be
small but their distributors are top quality, as are their electronics.

My simple point was that we work with many Spectral dealers, who routinely
sell our products together so I have a fair amount of feedback about the
combinations from many sources. I am sorry your experience did not go well.
Send me an e-mail and the name of your dealer. I will try to effect a return of
the product if you found it to be ineffective in your app. We did recently
discontinue the SideWinder CX but I will do what I can to help.

You have made some heavy handed accusations and comments based on very
little information. I have posted here since '01. I have never been accused of
lying or malfeasance and I have gone well out of my way many times to help
others both personally and professionally so save all your comments about
shaky credibility, they are entirely unwarranted. What's next, name calling?

Your last six feet comment is backwards. From the perspective of electronic
power supplies its the first six feet that is the most critical and most
electrically visible to electronics. Electrically speaking, electronics are near-
sighted.

Yes, we are formatting and finishing the supporting text for measurements
that do show obvious differences in impulse current efficiency and lowered
resistance. Since you have gone so far out of your way to be pointy and
accusatory, I will e-mail you the link when it comes available.

Enough with the insults. If you have more to say, I am easy to reach directly.

Regards,

Grant

Mcondon, much worse has been said of the performance of many commercial products than your comments above. I have absolutely no problem with you sharing your opinion and experience for better or worse--it is why I read the comments in the first place. You clarified your original post and cleared up the misunderstanding about "material value", which was my only issue.

Products like the Diamondback and others can never pretend to offer the perfect solution for every application or every system--no matter how much effort is put into making them. They are after all only one part of an overall electrical delivery system in which many variables often come into play.

This is why we use dealers who offer evaluations. If anyone feels stuck with a product that does not work for them, I will always "go to the mat" to help get the products returned or exchanged when bought through one of our dealers. Feel free to contact me if I can be of any help.

Regards,

Grant

Nico, please e-mail me offline with product questions. I travel and cannot check forums regularly. I also do not want to use forum space for general commercial product info.

The short answer is the Platinum model was a more recent product run that used gold over brass plating rather than the previous silver plate over brass IEC. There was also a wire and extrusion change but nothing that should significantly alter a buying decision.

Regards,

Grant