i'm jumping in the lake without dipping a toe first. have been looking to upgrade my cdp and eyeballing DAC/Transports for a while. the PS Duo just popped onto my radar last month. a set was made available the other night (right after i posted above), so i jumped on it. should have mine next week. much rather waited a year for some debugging but hey....it's not a pacemaker or baby crib. i'll survive if it takes a crap.
with everything i've read and 4k with trade-in program....it seemed like the thing to do.
looking forward to it
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i'm considering the PWT/PWD too. just gave them a short demo at a local audio shop. sounded really nice but then everything i hear in a demo room sounds really nice. have heard alot of positive comments(mostly from folks selling the product) but would like to hear more from owners who have some extended "real world" use with the pair.
look forward to hearing and reading more. |
thanks for the info Roger. i've got the duo incoming with only a short in-store demo under my belt. was wondering why you wouldn't do a comparison of the PWT with the PWD?. i'm pretty close to a know nothing regarding alot of this stuff, but have read almost everything regarding the PSA duo. just finished the owners manual today. the recommended way to run the PWT is with the PWD via the I2S cables, then directly to the amp. pre-amp is ok if you must (Mr M called it the best way in the video).
again....knowing little about dac's and transports in general, i might have missed something here?. PSA itself might share some of the blame too?. they have made statements implying "it's fine" to hook these piece's up in a variety of ways. however, from what this newbe has gotten out of all his PWT/PWD research is this. as of release, the PWT and PWD are made to work together in a pretty specific way. super high res DVD recordings, native and memory playback, I2S connection, asynchronous clock, digital filters ect...all working together. we'll have to tune in later for additional compatibility (bridge, FLAC, folder access ect...). right now it seems very proprietary to me at least. if the point of this comparison was to prove/disprove PSA's claims of compatibility/versatility ....then i understand the set-up and reason behind it. your judgments are very likely spot on imo. no doubt in my mind that at this point when compared by itself, the PWT couldn't out-shine the Forsell.
it does seem that the set-up available didn't let the PWT "do it's thing". to do so it would need to be hooked up as recommended. that's how my demo was set-up and it went fantastic. plan on hooking it up the same way when mine arrive (with the PSA hdmi silver I2S-12).
kinda like trying to re-create a dream.
wish me luck.
cheers
Lev |
i agree Rodger. if they're gonna sell them separate and make marketing statements regarding alt set-up's...your comparison was 100% fair/valid imo.
just wasn't the camparo/information i was looking for specifically. not knowing alot about transports and dac's in general, i was hoping to see some real world comparisons with the duo against other similar set-ups.
btw...funny you mentioned the transport sound when opening/closing. that was the single biggest negative i remember from my demo.
thanks again for taking the time to report
cheers
Lev |
who's crying Rafael??. the only times i saw the word "fair" were in rodger's and your post??. i certainly didn't use it or even imply it. sounds like you got a little chip on your shoulder Rafael. it appears you have found the comparison results you were hoping for =)
if you really want to use word "fair" and or "unfair"...that's fine. while the reference set-up in this comparison was configured as recommended or near optimally, the PWT was not. i didn't/won't use the word unfair but will say it was not a *good* comparison if one hopes to find out what the PWT/PWD can do. other then that....i had no problem with the comparison. what i do have a problem with is you saying me or anybody else is crying here. talk about BS! |
no problem Rafael....my original post stated that roger is very likely correct. nothing wrong or unfair about his statements. the only way it could be considered unfair is if PSA was not marketing them as being "fine" hooked up to other equipment in alternative ways. they clearly are so roger's test is as fair as any. as i stated in reply, the PSA duo is very proprietary at this point imo. this in and of itself is a negative thing for many i'm sure. i agree with your idea that selling them as a set would be the best way to go. unfortunately business's don't always do what is best for the consumer. they're after our money for the most part.
regardless of how PSA chooses to sell/market them, i think they were/are made for each other and should be paired to hear their full potential. not doing so leaves alot on the table in my eye's. at my demo, the dealer briefly hooked up an alt connection and i heard a substantial difference instantly(forgot which connection he used...sorry).
in the end....i think we are in agreement. i by no means think either PSA piece's are "the best". with my limited experience.....i couldn't even tell you what the best transport or dac would sound like. those kind of determinations are better made by folks with alot more knowledge then i(like rodger. you and many others around here). i am smart enough to know my own limitations ;-).
i just took offense to your "cry" comment. not a big deal really but here is what i was looking for in a transport only comparison. 1st...use the PSA duo together with the I2S connection and hi res audio. then take the reference transport and plug it into the PTD and do the same. this way....you would be comparing the PWT and the reference transport(forsell) in their corresponding, recommended, optimal set-ups. again...this is only what i personally would like to see/read/hear. not saying it's more fair or a better comparison. that's how i'm buying them so that's what i wanted to see.
shazam- what are your thoughts on the various media types?. have you had a chance to compare redbook, reg cd's, high res dvd, ect... thanks for the write up. look forward to more of your input.
cheers
Lev |
just got my pair hooked up this morning. been running them for about 7 hours now and they're sounding phenomenal. using the high grade PSA IS2 ac-12, silver hdmi and 2 PSA PW AC-5 power cords. the PC's are running to my PSA Quintet which in turn is using a PSA PW AC-10 power cord going to a dedicated 20A line. have 5 XLR IC's to try out but currently have Tera Labs RSC Air 2 connected. other 4 to be tried are Cardas GR's, Acoustic Zen Silver Ref II's, Audio Art IC-3SE and AudioQuest Colorado's. Krell S-300i integrated is what it's all going through. aerial 7b's and velodyn dd12 sub is where everything ends up. it'll take me a while to sort out which IC sounds best.
DAC is set to native and auto filter mode per PSA recommendation. testing music is a wide variety of stuff but mostly rock but some jazz and classical too. hi res dvd in 24/88 and 24/96 was jazz and classical only.
units were packaged nicely and a snap to set-up. went with the silver exterior finish and it looks good. got a laugh out of the white gloves and liked the soft cotten PSA bag each unit was wrapped tightly in. i'm not a huge fan of touch screens. prefer old school buttons but the touch screen's will work fine imo. no flickering and easy to read at least. was glad to hear my transport drawer didn't have the kinda cheap sound the unit i demoed did. opens and closes nicely with a solid sound.
any comments i make regarding the sound need to taken with a grain of salt. i'm new to hi-fi and have very limited experience with other DAC's/Transports. my comparisons were done against a Consonance Turandot CDP that imo....is a decent/nice sounding player(standard cd only).
right out of the box the duo sounded good. i could hear it start improving/opening up after about 3-4 hours. not sure how much "better" it will get but even if it stays right where it is....i'll be plenty happy.
regulare CD's.
biggest difference i noticed right off the bat was soundstage. it is huge!. very tight/extended bass and incredibly smooth top end. mids are crystal clear and without any harshness. the most un-digital sound i've ever heard coming from a digital source. outstanding tonal balance and imaging with great detail as well. at the risk of sounding cliche-ish, i'm things i've never heard before.
high res DVD-RW 24/96 and 24/88
Note: i have no frame of reference what so ever here. it's the first time i've ever played downloaded hi res stuff on my system. again....more grains of salt please.
was totally blow away here. have no clue where to even start so i won't. i'll just say it sounded phenomenal in every sense of the word. have never been exposed to anything like this so i'm speechless. i would have guessed that this was a completely new/different system.....not just a source (and connection) upgrade.
no doubt most of you veterans will need to look deeper then my basic/rudimentary comments. wish i could comment further but again...a mans got to know his limitations =). debates regarding what's ultimately "best" or "better" will be left too those of you who know what "better" is(i don't). this much i can tell you.... when compared to my Consonance cdp, it is MUCH better. i'm in heaven and couldn't be happier
unless something unforeseen comes up....i'm now in a very happy place. need to finish up my IC tests but that's about it. put a fork in me because i'm done for a while. plan on upgrading the krell integrated too separates next year but that's still a ways off. for now...it's time to enjoy the music for me!
cheers
Lev |
i'm hooked up with the PSA I2S-12 solid silver hdmi. did a quick a/b compared to $15 hdmi's i had laying around. as i expected, the I2S-12 added some detail that was fairly obvious right from the get go. didn't go much further into it then that.
also using 2 PSA PW AC-5 power cords connected to a quintet, then an ac-10 power cord to my dedicated 20A line. did not bother to do any testing with the oem cord so i can't comment any further (other then they look really cool =) ).
mine have been running for about 3 days now. noticed a nice change/loosening up the first 24 hours. very subtle changes after that....a touch of added detail and a slightly smoother midrange. |
one week in and what i don't like about the PWT/PWD. gotta say i'm really enjoying this set-up but a couple of things do rub me wrong.
have always not liked touch screens and i still don't. wouldn't mind it as much if i had a vertical rack and the PWT/PWD were close to eye level. positioned close to knee/thigh level makes the touch screen a p.i.t.a. imo. gimme some good ol fashioned buttons please!
my touch screen did not flicker at first but now, i do notice something akin to a slow fade-out then fade back in. i guess it can be called a flicker but it's in slow motion.
my unit does not like DVD-RW's. it does read them but i get a vary faint transport motor hum. can only be heard during silent portions but it is there. usually goes away after a few songs but i'd rather it not be there at all. was told it has to with the required speed of the transport when reading RW disc's??. it is flawless on regular DVD-R's though.
small grip here but it does take a while to cue up a hi-res dvd. i timed 12-15 seconds which isn't terribly long but something you need to get use to.
a couple of new plus's have also surfaced in the past week.
one thing that is really appealing to me now is the memory reading ability. it's really nice to eject a disc and put in a new one while the music keeps playing. when your cued up to start the new disc is when you can stop the previous one. seamless music playback is kinda nice. it also helps with my wait time mini-grip from above. you can keep listening to a disc while it reads the new one.
the native playback and auto filter mode seem to work best a vast majority of the time (90%) but certain disc's really step out when manually adjusted. these disc's were crap recordings to begin with so it's nice to hear them sound good for once.
just a few observations/opinions i though i'd pass along.
cheers
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oooops. i really should preview/proofread my posts first
yep....grip was supposed to = gripe = complaint =)
thx for teaching me a new word too Tab....."patois" (had to look it up)lol! |
i'm not in love with the remote either shazam. specifically, the eject and stop buttons are too small/close to each other for my fat stubby fingers.
one thing i was glad NOT see was another super heavy metal remote (like my s-300i came with). got about 5 dings on my coffee table because of the krell remote. fell on my bare foot a few weeks back and man did it hurt!. you can do some serious damage with these things!.
just went and tested your flicker theory and i think you're right?. even moving the shades a little caused it to fade down and back up. did the same when the dog walked by. will keep an eye on it but i think you're on to something here shazam. thx |
outstanding system Sgr. love the levinson equiptment!. my pair has been running for 7 days now. haven't noticed much of a change for the last 2-3 days. i'm thinking break in is over but we'll see?. are you still noticing some change/improvement two weeks in?
would love to hear additional comments comparing the PSA Duo to your killer reference set-up.
are you using the I2S connection?
have you compared different formats and resolutions?
any other thoughts/opinions would be fantastic. |
no apology needed sgr. your candid thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated. i don't think you are dissuading anyone either. you can only tell it like you hear it. as good as the pet/pwd is or may be....hi-fi gear like levinson cost what it does for a reason imo. i've always believed one gets what one pays for (for them most part). if you want a source that sound like $10-$20k....buying something at $4-6k usually won't cut it =)
look forward to hearing more comments from you as things move along and/or come to a conclusion.
thanks again |
thanks for the input sgr. the reason i asked was that i've read the PWT/PWD can run with the big dogs but personally found that very hard to believe. having no experience with super high end stuff (like your awesome system), i wouldn't/didn't have a clue how it would stack up. having paid 4k for my pair (with trade in program), i can't see how it could sound "as good as" stuff in the upper teir's of audio that cost many times more.
in your opinion...does the PWT/PWD have any business at all being compared to your levinson stuff and the like?. your "not even close" comment makes me think they don't.
not to take anything away from PSA, as this is the best sound i've ever owned/experienced. i'm very happy with the purchase and have no regrets what so ever. just wondering if all/some of the hype surrounding the product is true or not.
btw...having a levinson based system would be a dream come true for me. someday i hope!
thanks again |
agreed Shazam. i've been asking how it stacks up against big money gear out of curiosity.....not expectations of equality.
my pair continues to impress. still in awe of the sound coming out. just got my first 3 DVD-A's and was further blown away by what this duo can do. between these new DVD-A's and all the 192, 96 and 88 downloads i've burned.....my PWT/PWD is exceeding every expectation i had going in. but then i had realistic expectations to begin with.
agree on your value proposition too...getting this sound for 4k (using trade program) is a *huge bang* for the bucks spent imo. |
took my pwt/pwd over to a friends house 2 weeks ago for a demo. we tried a variety of combination's and connections using his much more expensive dac and transport (his whole system is MUCH higher end then anything i own).
tried his dac with the pwt then his transport with the pwd. his equipment alone sounded "better" then either of these combination's, regardless of connection type (SPDIF, TOS and AES/EBU). pwt and his DAC using AES/EBU sounded great and came the closest in both our opinion. we both agreed that the AES/EBU connection sounded best in general and the TOS sounded worst.
without a doubt.....the pwt/pwd sounded it's best when used together via the hdmi connection. detail, soundstage depth and overall smoothness were much improved vs any of the combo's and connections we tried. regarding the comparison between his stuff and my pwt/pwd?.....all i can say is he has since ordered and is waiting for his new pwt/pwd.
i'm not looking to get involved in the relative sound quality debate either. thus my reasoning for not naming his gear. i will tell you that it cost over 2x as much and is made by a very respected name. on the other hand...it is 2 years old too.
the pwt/pwd really shine when used together with a high quality i2s/hdmi connection. i use ps audio's I2S-12 solid silver line and absolutely love it. strongly recommend giving it a demo if you're in the market.
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