@torinf
I’m the OP and I like this DAC a lot, but you sound like a shill. You’ve sent your overly long post, in exactly the same form, to a number of different forums. It looks as though you have and agenda and a product to push and a seller to get it from. I have never seen anything like this.
Frankly, I don’t think anyone should pay any attention to what you write.
Just my $.02. |
I can see how you can think that. I'm not a shill. I have no connection to their company in any way. |
Well, finally I have had a run in period virtually done at 200 hrs, with the lks,
My previous dac was a chord Dave running as a pre to my bhk250 fitted with matched nos 1963 Siemens grey tubes.
I didn't bother getting critical at first but straight off the bat the lks was very much like the Dave which was initially promising but I let it run for a full week before any comparisons on purpose.
, previous to Dave was PS directstream, auralic Vega, oppo ha1,nad m51,ca dac magic, ect,, I also have a good friend with a msb select dac, dual power, 33clock, ect ect,fully optioned, that I have had in my system for a week, so I consider myself to somewhat know how good a particular dac can sound.
I have nothing to do with lks, and can say the after hearing the Denafrips terminator it is going to replace my lks as it is the best dac on the market ATM for the money,,,,, but, at the lks's price its a no brainer, the lks has better separation than Dave by far, it's much quieter, has double the Dave's bass in a much more controlled manner and without raveing on ,in my system its synergy, with is nuances within a black as black background is instantly obvious, it also makes no difference being fed dirty wall power or PS p10 power, thanks to its linea ps I guess,, the terminator has the same traights but has the msb ladder dac type glorious presentation to boot,
One things for sure the lks is king of the dacs at a give away price
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Just to have everything in one place, the LKS costs about 1/3 the cost of the Denafrips, and 1/7 the cost of the DAVE.
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Since I am the OP, perhaps it's time for me to offer my long term impressions of this DAC. I have not been a digital guy and have not compared it to other fine DACs. But recently on another forum I was asked about strengths and weaknesses of the DAC and this is how I replied:
Before the LKS I used a Lavry Black and then an Oppo 105. But being a listener mostly to vinyl they proved unsatisfactory and I found myself almost not using them. By contrast I find the LKS to give me a sense of musical event similar to my vinyl playback system, but with the usual digital advantages. Bottom line is that I enjoy listening to it easily as much as to my vinyl. First of all, perhaps due to its enormous power supply, there is a top to bottom fullness. There is also the solidity of instruments in space. You can almost reach out and touch. The quality of the bass is really fun. My earlier DACs presented the instruments to me as vapor or cardboard. Beyond that with the right material the music fills my wall from beyond the speakers and there is very good depth, a see-through quality. Using one ESS9038pro dac chip for each channel might have something to do with the spatial illusions. Like when I upgraded to a fine all tube phono pre, it differentiates more clearly between the good and the great software. Almost all of my listening now is from a laptop and HD playing ripped CDs and SACDs plus a few downloads.
As for weaknesses, as to sound I can't determine any. But I'm no digital expert. The weaknesses, as far as I am concerned have to do with the conditions of ownership. LKS (Li Ka-shing) is a small Chinese company with no international presence. Consequently ownership is a bit of an adventure. As an earlier adopter I had to address an overheating problem that the factory has since addressed. Very easily done with a few cheap heat sinks. Support from the factory is supplied by email from an English-speaking support person. Still have to deal with things like removing the Amanero board to update firmware, but not a big deal. It's simple, and the factory provides very detailed instructions in English, but for a bit of a hobbyist. For additional support I keep in touch with other owners in a thread at head-fi.
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@johnnygohard,
Sounds like the LKS was very close to the Dave in your system. Could you describe what the Dave has that the LKS doesn't? |
And this is with a stock LKS. Modified it is mucho better. Modded Oppo Sonica DAC even slightly better.....now I will finish the Oppo 205 mods.....that will, I am pretty sure, be as good as the Sonica. Good time for great digital sound without spending a fortune. |
Correction: In my post above I incorrectly named the small Chinese Company that designs and manufactures the LKS DACs. It is Mu Sheng Electronics (沐声电子). |
I’m bringing this thread back as I have recently replaced my Chord 2Qute with the LKS MH-DA004. There is also not a whole lot of info/reviews out there on this great component.
Here are my comparisons between my 2Qute and the LKS 004: There is no comparison! Just kidding. I’ve owned and enjoyed the 2Qute for over 2 years and it is also an outstanding DAC for the price.
I’d have to say the only thing that the 2Qute has on the LKS 004 is a touch more dynamics. It’s a little more jumpier and playful, this comes even more into play at low volume listening. But I couldn’t consider this a deal breaker by any means.
The LKS 004 trumps it everywhere else, including bass energy. It plays low(er), controlled and doesn’t leave me wanting in this aspect at all. The soundstage is massive but not artificial sounding in the least. It may have added a bit more width but the depth and feeling of spaciousness is where it really shines over the 2Qute. Details, especially micro details are much more apparent. I would never have considered the 2Qute to have any glare/etch on the treble but somehow the LKS has managed to bring forth more treble air and information while being even smoother. Mid range is beautiful and engaging.
Physically this DAC is a beauty, build quality is top notch. She’s heavy and well crafted. I don’t need to get into the high quality parts used on this unit as it’s been previously mentioned.
It’s also a really nice feature having a remote as I use my 2 channel for movies and now I don’t need to get up to switch inputs. You can also switch filters/bandwidth setting/brightness, on/off etc with the remote.
I’m quite happy with my purchase and can only hope it is as reliable as my Chord has been!
I'd share pics but this forum is horrible for that.
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Thanks to everyone who gave their impressions. This is a pretty exciting dac. Right now I have an hd800s, zmf Auteur and Atticus and was running them out of a burson conductor sl 9018. A great dac and amp but I just upgraded to an hdv820 which blows the Burson away in every way.
I wonder if I can still make a big gain in sound quality adding this dac to my chain rather then using the built in dac of the hdv.
A few questions for those of you running this dac in your chains are any of you doing it in USB mode ? If so how does that compared to other input modes?
I know one member mentioned in some ways it was better than dave but another member said it was behind the 2qute in at least dynamics. This makes me a bit confused as to where it genuinely stands among other totl dacs.
Are there any further thoughts how it compares to other high end dacs such as yggy 2 or qutest/Hugo ?
What's the deal with sbaf? Their thread over there on this dac is filled with nothing but hostility.
Thanks !
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@smodtactical Great gear! I’m sure you get a lot of enjoyment there.
As for the LKS 004 besting your current set up, it’s hard to say without knowing your own sound preferences, the characteristics of your phones/speakers and what you hope to gain. I would venture to say you would get a performance upgrade using the LKS as an external DAC but the price vs performance ratio may not be worth it at this point? And of course, the more revealing your gear, the more changes you'll notice.
I currently run the LKS 004 using the USB input and it sounds great, absolutely no qualms from me vs the co axial route in my system. I’m using an Audioquest Cinnamon cable with a Curious cable on the way. I’m excited to see what this cable swap brings as there are a lot of positive reviews kicking around.
I’m sure you’ve looked at the 81 page thread about this DAC over on Head-Fi. I’ve read the whole thing and the one reviewer did mention the Chord Dave bested the LKS 004 in musicality and dynamics I believe. I can’t even afford to be in the same room as the Dave but it sounds like this DAC can hold its own, although I’m speculative of it besting some $10k + DACs. But stranger things have happened!
I did found the 2Qute to have a bouncier sound vs the LKS. Generally there will be some give and take with any gear swaps of course. But ultimate synergy is my goal.
I also read that thread on Super Best Audio Forum. Very arrogant and stand offish, turned me right off.
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@hfaddict Thanks for the reply. I did read that thread and was impressed that the lks was considered to be in the same league than the Dave.
I'm also impressed by claims it beats yggy 1 ! And as a ds dac u wouldnt have to warm it up which is very appealing.
In terms of my setup I enjoy it immensely it just sounds fantastic but I wonder if I can sound even better with an external dac.
I may also buy a custom made tube amp so this dac will serve as a source that also. |
@smodtactical
It is rare that a do-all component can excel at all of its functions over separate, well chosen components. A couple of the commercial reviews of the hdv820 suggest that its DAC section is outperformed by separate DACs which themselves have been said by users to have been outperformed by the LKS 004. I have tried in vain to obtain technical information about the DAC section of the hdv820 other than that it probably uses an ESS 9018. They don't seem to give out a lot of information about what else is inside.
One of the problems in considering purchase of the LKS is that there are no domestic dealers and almost no opportunity to try one out at home or even to hear one. It is generally decided upon on the basis of a lot of reading and research. It may not be the very best, but it certainly seems to compete with the best--and has a huge price advantage
As for USB mode, I can report better performance after ripping CDs and playing through a laptop to the LKS than playing the CDs through an Oppo 105 and out to the LKS. Of course I can now rip SACDs and play them through the LKS as well. No comparison to playing the SACDs through the Oppo DAC which is far inferior.
Finally, I didn't know what sbaf is, but after reading the @hfaddict post I took a look. It seems the guys over there simply reject the whole class of delta-sigma DACs notwithstanding that some of the best DAC implementations on the planet do very well with them, and taking note of different tastes. Much too much concentration on the chip rather than on the implementation and no talk at all of the music used for any comparisons. Frankly, they seem like a bunch of jerks with a kind of political point of view, and who want to sound like they know more than they do. It's their way or the "sound like crap" way! Interesting, but very odd.
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Some additional comments here on the LKS (which I have been interested in for over 10 months). First of all, if I were to design a DAC architecture, the LKS actually does almost everything perfectly right. The only 2 things that I have concerns about are the FET based analog stage (I prefer bipolar circuits) and the use of silver-mica compensation capacitors in the analog stages. FET devices have a warm texture to them that many people love, but I feel detracts from the realness and accuracy of the music. In my testing and experience, silver-mica capacitors are like super high frequency boosters, but can make the sound somewhat artificial and they do have microphonic problems. However, in this situation, the combination of silver-mica and a FET analog stage could result in great sound. In all my testing, I prefer true film-on-foil polypropylene caps. The Kemet PFR series are the smallest true "film-on-foil" caps that would work in this situation. They are much smoother and more realistic sounding than silver-mica.
Finally, there has been much discussion on the LKS vs Denafrips Terminator. Saying that Denfrips is generally the better DAC. I think it is totally in the eye of the beholder. The Denafrips does have true resists R-to-R circuits. However, two things. 1. I see op amps on the board at the bottom of the resister array circuits. I don’t know if these op amps are the "analog output stage" or if they are doing something else. I’d rather have a discrete bipolar analog stage than op amps any day. 2. They have an excellently designed power supply with massive amounts of small capacitors (for low ESR). However, they chose to use all Elna Silmic and Elna Cerafine capicators here. In my testing, the Elna’s have a very nice smooth sound, but they are just too laid back in the midrange and high frequency attack. It makes the DAC sound softer, milder and laid back / smooth. For many, this can be a desired sound, but I would rather have the resolution of a highly detailed DAC. If it were me, I would load that Denafrips power supply with Nichicon Muse KZ caps instead of the Elna's they have. In comparing the LKS with Denafrips, best I can do is youtube videos of both (some of them are actually using the same system). The Denafrips, while nice, is going to be too laid back and subdued for my tastes. The LKS appears to do everything right as it does sound very analog and real, but I can’t tell if it has enough attack/resolution until I finally decide to pull the trigger and get one in my system. In my case, the two possible options are the LKS MH-DA004 or the Krell Vanguard DAC (I totally love the Krell discrete Class A bipolar audio stages). Krell only supports RCA coax input. LKS has RCA and BNC coax, as well as i2s (Pink Faun PCI i2s card in my future?!?). |
@hfaddict wrote "I’m quite happy with my purchase and can only hope it is as reliable as my Chord has been!" I think I've read just about everything written about this DAC, and with the help of Google in 3 languages. I have not yet read of anything going wrong with the DAC. There were some issues of possible overheating in the analog area. Early adopters addressed the problem in a few different ways. The factory has since resolved the issue. One thing I think that makes the LKS easy to assemble without issues and even keep running well is the large amount of real estate that you get with the unit. It is large and laid out very simply with plenty of space around components. You have put up a lot of pictures, but my favorite is of the insides: https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9938884.jpg Your unit, if of recent manufacture, differs from this picture in that the 8 FETs in the analog section are now on the underside of the board. In fact, should anything go wrong, and as you can see, it would be fairly simple to disconnect a few plugs, remove a few screws and the Amanero board and lift out the circuit board to send in for repair if necessary. |
@auxinput Seems you've got a very good understanding of what's under the hood of these components. Way over my head but I enjoy learning and doing research.
@melm Haha I did the same thing and used a lot of Google translate as well. I also didn't find any reliability problems. And yes, tons of room under there!
You guys are killing me. I'm just finishing 10 days of work here and have another 2 weeks off to enjoy my rig again. And the new Curious USB cable should be waiting patiently in the mail box...
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I just wish LKS sent a demo unit out to a major reviewer like innerfidelity or earphiles so we could get an official review. I asked them to do this but they didn't reply. It would help my confidence.
How does the LKS sound with USB input? |
Oh and do you guys like the upgraded USB amenero board? Would you recommend another input instead or Schiit EITR to convert to coax? |
@smodtactical
The upgraded Amanero board is excellent with its own power supply (though drawing about 5V from one of the 50W transformers). It also has two femto clocks on board.
The Schiit unit is not at all comparable as the Amanero board is a USB to I2S board, not a USB to coax. Major difference, and much in favor of the Amanero.
As for the input, you use the Amaero board if you want to go in via USB. That would depend upon your source.
As for a US review, I believe that they can sell all that they make and mostly in Asia. It’s supposed to be a favorite in Hong Kong. So no American marketing. Anyway, why would you believe an "official" reviewer more than the dozens of users who offer opinions on the various ’net sites? I don’t think a commercial reviewer would write that a $1500 Chinese DAC could compete with the major players who offer a lot of advertising. Just my personal $.02. Also US mags usually don’t review components that don’t have US distribution. |
Stumbled upon this old thread doing some research looking to upgrade. @ricevs Looking for clarification on this statement. Do I understand correctly that your opinion is the modded Sonica Dac sounds better than the modded LKS?
And this is with a stock LKS. Modified it is mucho better. Modded Oppo
Sonica DAC even slightly better.....now I will finish the Oppo 205
mods.....that will, I am pretty sure, be as good as the Sonica. Good
time for great digital sound without spending a fortune.
Thanks in advance. |
@stray_cat
It looks like you may not hear from Ric.
I would read what he wrote to mean that the modified LKS is better than the unmodified LKS and that the modified Sonica is also better than the unmodified LKS. But I take that with a grain of salt. I think I have read everything written on the net about the LKS, and in more than one language. I have never seen a comparison of Ric's modified to an unmodified LKS written by a user.
Read above in this thread what Ric wrote about the unmodified and the modified LKS in the What's Best Forum.
Keep in mind that Ric's modification market for the LKS is infinitesimal. Not only are there very few, but it has been much praised in unmodified form, surpassing its predecessor (LKS 003) as modified substantially. Moreover due to its very large size, quality parts, functional simplicity (compared to the Sonica) and very simple layout it is relatively easy for hobbyists to modify on their own. The unmodified LKS is already like a Sonica on steroids!
The modification market for the Sonica (and 205) is much larger. So a little puffery on Ric's part can be excused.
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I’m just curious if the LKS would benefit from the use of silver transformers like the Kitsune modded Holospring Level 3 has, or are the existing transformers that are in place the best option?
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An unanswerable question.
The LKS has two 50 watt toroidal transformers. One is for the digital circuits; one for the analog circuits. The Holospring appears to have one transformer about that size (Is it, in fact?) and one quite a bit smaller.
What would be the advantage of a silver v. a copper transformer of the same power?
In any event, to answer your question I suppose you'd have to buy an LKS and substitute in a silver transformer. |
Can this Dac sound harsh In anyway?
especially in upper mid and lower treble?
Have had a Primare Dac 30 for the last 4 years, a nice dac, just wondering if LKS would be more analog sounding? |
The DAC has been in my system for about 2 years. I have been mostly an analog guy. Previous tries at digital didn’t get much listening but this DAC does. My analog system is VPI TNT, AT Art-9, three stage all tube (no SUT, no transistor) phono pre. Rest of the system is solid state. As for SQ I am currently indifferent as between listening to the DAC or to LPs. Since getting the DAC I have accumulated a lot of CD/SACD files (a good many from local libraries) and listen to LPs because they are old friends. SQ from files is better than from silver disks.
The answer to your direct question is the same I would give about my analog system, it depends on your software. It will be revealed, quality, warts and all. The LKS is not a euphonic device. To a very very small extent with the DAC, as I live in a large crowded metro area performance may vary with quality of the electricity and the unit may sound better at certain times. Some have put electricity re-generators in front of this and other DACs.
The problem with buying the LKS DAC is that there are very few of them so it’s hard to get opinions. But as compared to your DAC, it has a much more robust power supply, 2 DAC chips each costing 5 or so times what the DAC chip in your unit costs (though correlation between price and SQ is questionable) and a fully discrete FET analog stage as compared to chip implementation. Anyone getting the LKS should shield the transformers, very easily done. |
Anybody know if this DAC support DXD files?
Thanks! |
@suavek, Through its USB port (but not through its s/pdif) it will support 384K 24/32 bit PCM files. That should cover DXD files, though I have never tried a DXD file myself. See the users manual and complete specs at: http://www.mu-sound.com/files/MH-DA004.pdf |
Not sure if anyone will see this, but I've directly compared MH-004, Auralic Vega, Okto Dac8 stereo and Musetec MH DA005. 004 higher resolution than Vega, Vega superior musicality, more forgiving. Okto at least equal resolution to 004 with greater musicality. 005 superior to all, highest resolution and at least equal musicality to Okto in the right system. 005 really excels with microdynamics, allied to highest resolution gives illusion of living, breathing performers in room. Overall I'd characterize it as a balanced sounding dac, neither, romantic or analytical. Okto a little more forgiving with slightly less resolution. Okto an amazing dac at $1500, 005 amazing at $3300.
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@sns
Yes, someone has seen this, and thank you for writing about the new 005 DAC. I think I've read all the printed material about it though, as you know, very little has been written by anyone who has heard it. As with the 004 it probably has its greatest market in Asia.
As I see it, the 005 is a substantial refinement of the 004. It is still a two 9038pro chip with discrete analog section DAC. The power supply has been upgraded and IIUC it has been further insulated from the incoming AC current. Metal walls separate the transformers and circuits, which many of us did on our 004s. That alone makes a clearly discernable difference. Also the clocking, including on the USB input, has been upgraded in a very major way. Fundamentally that's what has to be done to minimize jitter in the DAC which is what stands between good and great music reproduction from it. It might be mentioned that many of these changes have been done to the 004 by hobbyists on Head-Fi.
I am concerned about the pricing (2.2 times that of the 004) which will keep it from popularity, and wonder whether it was actually necessary.
You use the expression "more forgiving." Can you explain?
Again, thanks for reporting on this important DAC.
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Melm, thanks for responding.
I have a more in depth review of 005 over at head fi under 'Four years after lks 004.
More forgiving in my use of word can mean one of two things. Less resolving equipment can be more forgiving as it can make lesser quality recordings sound less ugly, where as a more resolving piece can expose all the warts.
Ultimately, we'd all like equipment that's both maximally resolving and forgiving of the warts. I think the 005 comes very close to reaching both goals; certainly maximally resolving to the point where it replicates living, breathing human performance. The sense of organic presentation makes even lesser recordings sound more forgiving, my attention always goes to the performance. I've now have well over 200 hours listening to 005, long term listening sometimes brings out downsides you didn't hear initially, this dac not doing that. 005 is simply a musical piece.
I would add one needs a quality preamp to hear at it's best. I never find dacs direct to amp to be preferable. In the case of direct, I'd describe the 005 as slightly analytical, per usual with every dac I've used in this manner.
I purchased 004 with the intent of modding, so I've read the entire 200 page plus thread over at head fi. I determined you could never replicate the 005 with any amount of modding of 004, and I've done a whole lot of modding over many years. Beginning with power supply, you could never replicate the ps of 005 with any amount of mods. The power supply is where much of the magic of 005 exists. The noise floor seems limitless black, performers simply exist in a much more holographic sound stage. Awesome micro dynamics give performers the breath of life. Beyond that, I couldn't replicate the clocks or the analog section, boutique capacitors, resistors and other parts can only do so much.
Whether $3300 is expensive needs to be applied in the proper context. There can be no doubt 3.3k price is steep for many. I would say the 005 plays in an entirely different league from 004, and a much better value in it's price range than 004. The Okto dac8 stereo is much better value than 004. Obviously, I can only compare Okto to stock 004. The only way a 004 can be considered a good value is diy modded 004, and then only if you value your time modding as a freebie. It would have been an easy choice to keep the Okto and sell the 004 if I hadn't purchased 005.
Finally, the 005 may not be a wise purchase for some, it requires top notch resolution from rest of system to hear much of the nuanced performance increase of 005. I can imagine many would hear the Okto as an equal to 005 in a less resolving system, and so a $1500 dac would be preferable to $3300 dac.
I'd sure like to see some high profile reviews of 005, it's obscurity is a crime. Both the Okto and Holo May have gotten some high profile reviews lately, selling like hotcakes! Being a relatively high priced Chinese dac without high profile reviews will maintain this obscurity.
Perhaps you're correct in assuming greater sales in Asia, although I've not seen any Asian reviews. Shenzhen and Apos audio should market this dac in USA.
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Just a few brief points. I've had a good deal of very positive interaction with Jinbo, the designer and (I think) head of LKS. He has been very helpful and will provide whatever support his customers need. I wish him well with the 005. As for pricing on the 005, he'll figure it out.
As a refinement of the 004, which itself is a VERY conservative design though well executed, its hard to see the justification of a 120% increase in price. If, as you suggest, the price of the 004 may no longer be competitive as it was upon launch, then the 005, remaining with its conservative design but better executed, is priced at considerably more than 120% of the 004's worth. The digital world moves very swiftly.
I said I had read all the printed material, including what's on the new thread at Head-Fi and some of the 005 comments on the 004 thread.
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He should understand high profile reviews will be needed to sell in numbers. As it is, I can only state how 005 compares to a couple of $1500 dacs, well worth the extra money for me. My present plans are to get a Holo May in fall, definitely want to compare a ladder dac to what I consider top Sabre dac. Holo May competes with Mola Mola Tambaqui and Totaldac, give me a better idea where 005 stands in dac hierarchy.
For sure, dac world moving fast at the moment!
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sns,
Stereophile had to violate one of its cardinal rules to review the Okto, to wit no US distribution=no review. I wouldn’t be surprised if they hear from their advertisers. It’s tough enough for US manufacturers to compete with importers. So it’s not all that clear that they are prepared to do that again. Besides, some small operators (though larger than LKS) have written that they prefer not to have a high profile review. A good review could result in more orders than they can deliver dragging down customer relations. A bad review can put them out of business. LKS might just prefer to have you and others continue to post here and elsewhere.
AIUI LKS is a very small operation. Interesting that their 004 price has held steady. They make so few units that they can sell what they make.
In any event it looks like you’ll have a lot to say comparing DACs on a very good system. I’ll be looking forward to good reading. You might just want to start a new thread here or elsewhere comparing them. |
melm, Jinbo shouldn't be fearful of high profile 005 review if he has any confidence in his product. Based on my experience, 005 would excel.
I've thought about starting thread for 005 here. My issue is I only want to provide review after comparison to another high end value dac such as Holo May KTE. As it stands I"m only comparing to $1500 dacs (Vega was $3300 many years ago), not a great feat for $3300 dac to beat $1500 dac.
And you may be correct, perhaps LKS already at full manufacturing capacity. Also, there has been problems with lack of manufacturing capacity for semiconductor chips for autos, perhaps this is impacting audio as well.
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