Harley quote

There are 2 things to consider:

1) what is theoretically (scientifically, measurably) better
2) what is audibly noticeably better

Some people want “the best” - even though we know there is no “best” regardless of cost. They’ll pay/do anything even for only consideration 1 above. Sometimes, it is free to get the scientific benefit (cables not touching, etc). 
Then some can be of varying expense- making sure wires are not moving or vibrating internally in components,  making sure stylus is not subject to outside vibration. Room treatments, silver cable wire, $40K phono stages.
Beware of the law of diminishing returns and what you can actually hear, not what you think you hear. Psychoacoustics. Listen for yourself. Take reviews, especially in publications with advertisers, with a grain of salt. Seems like everything they listen to is great and a great value compared to the competition. Of course that is impossible.

Happy listening and testing.

@mahgister- very true. There is used equipment out there for very reasonable prices (I finally recently sold a very good sounding B &K amp and Belles Research preamp form the 80s and 90’s for a total of $400. Great core for a fine sounding system. Would have kept them if I didn’t want a volume control ina a remote.

 I was lucky to find an integrated with ONLY volume and mute functions on the remote- no extra noise with source or other controls, and I still have it for 15 years. No reason to switch unless it breaks (crossing my fingers) and if it did, I would most likely get another used or demo model with minimal functionality (no digital tuning or streaming crap). I got tremendous improvement from putting my turntable on a a wall shelf ($179) and putting in a vibration control platform on it - a little more but WAY less than a new cartridge or turntable which would not have made anywhere near as big an improvement for 3-4 (at least) times the investment.

@douglas_schroeder Doug-you’re nuts if you ride on the street. My wife used to and my daughter work in a hospital and the worst they see, and not rarely is motorcycle accidents in ERs. Off roading is fine- at least deadly cars won’t hit you. You still can get hurt pretty badly from getting tossed or the bike hitting you, but you probably won’t get killed.

I was lucky- at age 14 my calf touched the exhaust of a mini cycle (really a beefy mini bike with gas engine) and that bubble on my leg reminded me to never get on one again and I never had the urge.

I too, have the need for speed, at least being behind the wheel of a car puts me on equal ground (mostly since it is a small coupe sports car) with the other cars and especially pick up trucks driven by whackos (not all but a decent %). 

I ride a bicycle and got hit by an idiot who didn’t see me because the sun was in his eyes. Luckily, he was slowing down for a turn and I almost got out of the way-he clipped my rear wheel. Haven’t been able to find a replacement because of supply chain issues. Now I won’t ride within an hour of sun down.

@dadork - its common for amps and other components to come with junk power cords or none at all because people have preferences. I don't think it reflects whatsoever on the inside of the boxes.

Of course they make a difference, just beware of the law of diminishing returns.....

@douglas_schroeder - so you don't think the law of diminishing returns applies to audio equipment or is an excuse for LowFi? It is not an excuse, but a fact, and LowerFi is in the eye of the beholder, and sounds very snobbish.You can't tell someone how much $$ to put in their system. People have all different values, even audiophiles (self-described or otherwise). 

Hopefully, audiophiles have an idea of what they've spent on their system or what it lists for or what it's currently worth or some measurement of expenditure. 99% of people have some limit. If you are part of the 1% (no similarity to Bernie Sanders' comments intended) then good for you. I know I spent a hell of a lot more of my available cash on stereo equipment and records when I was in college than I do now, but what I spend now is greater than when my kids were still on the payroll. Everything is relative. If they are not part of the 1% and have no idea what they have or are spending, I'd like to play poker with them.

If you're part of the 99%, then you recognize, and consciously or subconsciously act on the law yourself, and are not operating with Monopoly money. Whether you are going from a $2K system to a $3K system, $5K, $10K, $20K, $30K, $50K, $100K, $150K, $250K, $500K or $1M+ with each jump should come SQ improvement (unless you got terrible advice or don't know how to set it up) that you can hear and appreciate. Whether it (or any purchase) is worth the expenditure is up to the consumer. Frankly, any investment should be judged by the sound improvement it makes; equipment, sound treatments, cables, tweaks, whatever. Some quasi-audiophiles only care about how cool or nice their system looks, and if that's what floats their boat, even include that in your value analysis as people consider it furniture, which certainly can change the equation. And it's OK to care about both.

I don't think anyone who contributes or reads this sight is IGNORANT of this, and there is no reason for antagonizing anyone in the name of snobbery.

@cleeds - @djones is talking about spending money and getting worse sound. Of course it is a bad investment - no one is talking about that. We are talking about value in improved SQ for each incremental dollar spent. The law of diminishing returns (for audio equipment specifically) just simply states that all things being equal, for each incremental dollar spent the sound improvement decreases. Of course if poorly paired equipment (or just overpriced stuff) there can be a degradation. It is most appropriate/evident within a product line of a manufacturer. 

In the discussion of an overall integrated system, you can talk about new HVAC systems, new power lines, room renovation, beyond equipment.

When dealers pay 60% (or less) for equipment, most used stuff is immediately depreciated that 40%. Now, if you can find equipment that holds that 60% long term, you have better value, especially if you buy it used.

I am trying to help cure people from upgradeitis, and to enjoy what they have and improving their existing equipment with the positive connotation of tweaks, where they are audible, not just measurable.

True @mahgister. However, once you've conquered those issues, upgrading equipment can improve the sound, sometimes dramatically. Just beware of the law of diminishing returns....and upgradeitis. People spending monopoly money on stereo equipment is good for the economy and the manufacturers they support. They want the hottest/latest/"best" reviewed. If not for them, we'd all have less manufacturers, and less choice, and certainly higher used equipment prices, and that would not be a good thing.

It's just like with cars. Some people want the brand new 2021 model and are willing to pay list or close to list price to be the first one on their block with it. For an example, a Porsche 911 may depreciate $40-50K during an initial 2-3 year lease of $2K/month, and then someone (like me) can get one with an extended manufacturers warranty and 99% of the enjoyment at a the depreciated price. Is it worth $50K to me to get the last 1% cachet - no way. The law of diminishing returns strikes once again. The best are the monopoly money guys (or girls) who BUY new and keep them for a year or less (I've heard of one that keeps them for about 3 months) and take a ridiculous hit. But they don't care, and if they're happy because they got a different color or a cabriolet for springtime, I'm happy that they make the cars more accessible. Otherwise there would be way fewer on the market and the prices would be even higher.

What a long post just simply saying there are scientific theories, not laws based on evidence in the physical world.

Back to the physical world....