Graham Phantom vs Triplaner


Wondering about the sonic traits of both these arms compared to each other.

- which one has deeper bass,
- which one has the warmer (relative) balance
- which one is compatible with more cartridges
- which one has the better more organic midrange
- which one has the greater treble detail.
- which one plays music better ( yes this is a more subjective question ).
- which one goes better with say the TW acoustic raven TT.
downunder

Showing 9 responses by aoliviero

Hello folks,

I have used the Graham Phantom-2 now for about 6 months. I was using the triplanat mk7 u2 previously for about 2 years. My experiences tend to mirror some of the posts here.

The Tp-7 is an excellent arm and does everything pretty well. It is smooth, musical, natural, dynamic, detailed and just great to listen to. I really did not think I was missing anything and felt I could not do much better while listening to it for the last two years.

Then on a suggestion I tried the Phantom-2. I actually had the P-2 in the box for 2 months before trying it. That is how much i was happy with the TP-7.well you probably know where this is heading.

Finally got around to installing the P-2. This arm feels like a brick in your hand vs the TP which feels like a feather. The P2 is a very heavy, solid, well constructed arm.

Both arms are easy to install and set vta, vtf and azimuth. However, one gripe with the TP is that vtf tends to drift. Not so with the P2.

In my setup, I was amazed at how much better the P2 is. There is a whole other level of resolution, transparency, micro and macro dynamics. This produces a more natural, palapable, tonally correct and dynamically live experience. Very well defined and holographic soundstage. Listening sessions have become a "spiritual and emotional" experience with the P2. Not subtle!

It may seem to most people that the TP isn't doing anything wrong until compared to better arms. In other words it's sins are those of omission. In my set up the TP seems to be missing the low level detail and does not convey the micro-dynamics and soundstaging in the pin point easy to hear way the P2 does.

Someone has said that you dont miss what you have never heard. But after hearing the P2, it is clear the TP misses a lot. However, what it does deliver cant be faulted.

One key caveat is that the P2 requires much more experimentation than the TP to get this level of performance.this has to do with the damping fluid. Its very easy to end up with misbalanced lackluster sound. the sweet spot is moderatly narrow. That said, the P2 still sounded better even when not in its optimum position.

Regarding damping fluid experimentation, Sirspeedy's post are right on! He really hit the nail on the head. Be prepared to overshoot and undershoot to get close then make tiny changes to get to the sweet spot. If you are prepared to have the patience to do this then this arm will yield incredible results.

I plan to keep the TP for now but might try the fidelity research arms next. Have fun!

Andrew
Hey Doug, Dan and Raul

Yes it has been a long time. I hope all is well with you. You're right I have mostly been happy listening and work has been real busy plus just got done with a book! I have been reading the gon and its good to see some new faces and die-hards.i cant remember the last time I listened to my cd player! I plan to participate more.

Yeah, the vtf issue is probably not fair because it's probably due to me not tightening the hex on the back weight. My guess is the tygon tubing expands and contracts slightly due to small temp shifts and changes the vtf ever so slightly. I can hear the difference between 1.85 and 1.78!

Anyway, the triplanar is an excellent arm and i am not trying to debunk it. As Raul mentions, as well as many others, the Orpheus may just be a better match in the phantom. I figured this could be a tricky post! I have no stake in the matter and just tried to describe it the way I heard it. I'm still keeping the Triplanar and will look for a good match possibly with a mono cart to try that domain. I cant bring myself to let it go. It was my first arm and a part of my love affair with vinyl.

Regarding phono cable im using the silver breeze.

Let me know if any of you are passing through Atlanta. You're welcome to come by. May be a little too warm for a single malt but perfect for a mint julip!

Cheers

Andrew
Hey audiofeil, thats funny. You're a real joker:). Which audio shop do you represent?

By the way, for Triplanar owners, spend the 50 bucks for the micro VTF adjustment knob that is now standard if you havent already. This can simplify setting VTF.

The reason I hardly ever tightened the back weight is that the vtf would change slightly after tightening. This required a few times to get vtf exactly where you want it.

With the micro adjust,you can tighten down the back weight and then make any minor adjustments using the nicro adjust nut/screw to be where you need to. Nice feature added to the u2 and easilly retrofittable.
Dan, I agree, the P2 sould be better if it had a continuous run. I guess every design is a sum of strengths and weaknesses.

Syntax and i have tried each tonearm in the same system and pretty much share similar opinions of the sonic differences.

My goal was to offer some descriptions of the two by actual side by side comparisons in my system as opposed to speculation, extrapolation or second-hand opinions.

Maybe it is better to speculate, etc since it fosters debates with no clear winner or loser....

Oh well, in the end if you get a chance give both a listen and see what you like. You may even disagree with our read on these two.

Have fun!!

Andrew
Jimjoyce25,

I have not tried the Continuum. Halcro has some experience with these.

I would like to try some other arms in the future with some other carts for experiment sake. But lately have been stingy with extra cash!

One thing i wonder about the graham is how much the sheer total mass of the arm contributes to the sound. Does a higher mass create some dampening or mechanical grounding effect?
I wonder if any of you have given any more thought to the influence of the total weight of the tonearm with respect to dampening. I wonder how much of the dampening occurs in the headshell and arm tube versus the rest of the arm assembly.

I suppose that if the armtube is properly damped, then the rest of the arm mass or dampening proerties is not as critical. However, I would think that if the arm tube is not effectively damped then the mass and material of the remaining assembly plays a greater role.

I have heard the Fidelity Research/Ikeda arms (effective mass aside) are considered as effective as they are due to the sheer mass of the arm.

Also, I have heard from the Triplanar tips that removing the damping trough has sonic benefits. If the damping trough is so far away from the headshell and if the arm tube is effectively damped, why would this make a sonic difference?

Any thoughts?
Dan

What you are getting at is that the arm tube alone does not seem to dampen enough. Which I agree with and was really my point.

Clearly the phantom fluid level, triplanar fluid or not, and triplanar trough or not make differences.

I will say that while the phantom fluid does improve the balance it does not seem to obscure detail.

Question is how much of the detail in music is obscured by the mass of the arm?
Well it is probably a lot more complicated than all of this!!!

I will stop asking questions and "enjoy the music" as Raul says.

Last Friday night's listening session was quite amazing!!!!
Dan

Is that Jorma K? Is it acoustic and on lp?

I saw Hot Tuna couple year ago in a small theater. Acoustic and electric. Awesome.

By the way, pick up buddy guy n junior wells Going back to acoustic on pure pleasure if you like the blues. Pretty amazing record