Graham Phantom damping fluid level.

anyone with experience using the Blue fluid in the model 1.5t/ceramic arm, regarding the level?

Sirspeedy,
If your ever in town email me and come on over.

Hevac,I live on east coast,not Mass.I do love that state,though as I have fond memories of being a tennis instructor at a camp,years ago.Great Barrington.Gorgeous area back then.
Best.

Sirspeedy thanks for the reply.
The Denon Telarc Omni-disk is the one I use to set anti skating.
I know the distrtion will start somewhere in the track I am just trying to get them even close to distorting at the same time. Now the they are not even close maybe 5 seconds between both channels.
Thanks for the help.
Sirspeedy you don't live in Mass. do you?

Dr Steve,thanks for the thoughtful words.

Make it hot, before you fill it inside.

I apply the fluid as recommended. If the sound is a bit dull, I use a syringe with an 18 gauge needle to remove a little bit; wait several hours, and repeat until it sounds right. It is not precise, but I wouldn't obsess on the fluid level. There has to be a point that we enjoy listening to the darn thing.

Congratulations to Sirspeedy on the aquisition of his new tonearm.

thanks for the response Hevac. I appreciate you reaching out. I hope Bob Graham gets well soon.

Hevac,some test records(I own the Telarc Omni-disc)may not allow for the distortion to "totally" go away.I know my Phantom,using my Omni-disc still exhibits a certain degree of distortion in one channel.I believe we want to shoot for least amount heard,if it cannot be totally eliminated.
What I do,is get familiar with the actual "volume" of the distortion,as well as how long the distortion lasts,timewise.I play the track over,quite a bit,to become familiar.
I voice my arm for lowest volume,and shortest duration of this distortion,but one can always go from "that" point using one's ear,as well as watching the cantilever trace a groove,when viewed from straight ahead(front of cartridge/arm).It should be as vertical as possible,from a frontal view,as a disc spins.
Good luck.

Hello Ducatirider,
I talked directly with Bob Graham yesterday, (he actually answered the phone) so give it another try. He was on his way to the doctor office so could only talk for a few minutes.
I asked him about the spacers every one is talking about here and he said it really didn't matter if you use it or not other than it is being used with lighter cartridges.

My post about my problem is wrong on my last reply. I am having an issue with anti-skating and not VTA. I use the Denon test record for setting anti-skating. On track 10, about center of the record the track starts to distort on the left speaker before the right speaker. I make adjustments to the anti-skating, but have found that I am at the end or furthest away. The distortion is still off to the left but I cannot make it correct. The noise should come from both speakers at the same time. Bob suggested I increase my tracking weight. The Koetsu settings are 1.8 to 2.0 and I am at 1.95.
What’s bothering me is Bob said I can go up to 3 to 3.4 grams. I am very nervous about setting a $4500.00 cartridge at a higher tracking force than recommended by the manufacturer. I could break the cantilever and be shit out of luck.
Any help on this matter would be appreciated.
I did not have this problem with the 2.2.

Thanks.

My whole point is that you can't leave a message. His voicebox is full. BTW my serial number is 3280. I can't imagine the isues one would have with a low profile cartridge like a 17D3. That thing is very squat.

Hey guys,
Hevac1 {Leo} here.
I purchased a Phantom and recieved it 3-10-08 after 2 years with a 2.2 and it is sounding awsome. I have the fluid just after the square section but I am bottoming out on the VTA and still need more room. I do not remember getting those spacers talked about here with either of my wands. I have a Koetsu Urushi and a Lyra Helikon Mono.
I tried to call Bob Graham and have had no reply either. The last time I had spoken with him he was having some big health issues with the family so it will take a while for him to get back to us. Keep leaving messages though so he will remember to call you, he has a lot on his plate so to speak at this time. I live 5 minute from his office so as his problems clears up I am going to see if he could make a house call. Fingers crossed.

Tshulba, my S/N is 3155-purchased Nov. 2006

Mine was manufactured in 2006 s/n 3137 so that is why it came with the spacer. I prefer the sound with the spacer installed.

I just took possession of mine. It is brande new. Thank you Tshulba

Tshulba, Ducatirider,
If your Phantom is a later production the headshell is thicker than earlier productions thus eliminating the need for the spacer. I remember asking Bob Graham about it and the new arms do have a thicker headshell.

Hi Dgad, thanks for your input. I have unlimited VTA adjustment on my table so it doesn't matter whether I use a spacer or not, I can have tail up or down regardless.
I will play a little more with VTA to see if that helps. I'm getting very nice bottom end response, much better than I was getting with higher fluid level. The fluid level makes a huge difference in my setup.
Perhaps I will machine a brass spacer to see what that does.
Dgad, Have you actually tried using that much added mass (brass spacer) with a Koetsu?

Sirspeedy- i left Graham a message about the cartridge spacer early last week and i have received no response so far. I hear he is having some troubles hope things work out ok for him.

Frank i found that if i lowered the tracking force just above the distortion point i get great highs. Then i adjust the damping level and it all seems to fall into place, great clean top end and monsterous bass.If i go to low on the damping fluid it becomes thin sounding .

Has anyone tried contacting Graham Engineering? Last I called, the voicebox was full and email has been unresponsive. When I received my arm, it was SME mount and I wanted a template. I had to resort to buying a new armboard from TW for my Raven One.

I have found(even on the Phantom)that whenever I adjust fluid level,the VTA AND VTF should be atended to as well.It's a sort of Rubics Cube combo,but not really hard to do.You MUST become very hands on,and play around alot!
Best.

You need the VTA fairly negative as a rule of thumb on Koetsu. The back of the cartridge should be level. If you know Koetsu this indicates the front of the cartridge being tilted up or a negative VTA. This can only be achieved w. a spacer. The benefit of this approach is that you can increase the effective mass of the arm and the Koetsu (order a spacer in brass is ideal) will sound much better. I know, everyone is going on about damping. But that is fine tuning after everything else is correct. Get the resonant frequency below 12 Hz. I doubt anyone w, a Graham has done so if extra mass was not added. Once you get that done you will hear dynamics and bass. Until then, it will be much more congested.

I use the spacer with my Koetsu RSP and also used it with the Black. I like it better than without. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this. I feel that the lower the damping fluid level is on the squared off portion, the better low and mid frequencies sound, however the downside seems to be that upper frequencies are somewhat compromised. Don't get me wrong, everything sounds great but I'd like to hear a little cleaner upper frequency response.

That is strange yours was not supplied with the tonearm. I would think if you contact Graham you could probably get one. I prefer the sound of the tonearm with the spacer installed , it seems to be cleaner sounding and i can hear more detail in the music. I wish i could get more down VTA travel i am at my limit on some lp's. If you read the Stereophile review they talk about the spacer in the review.

Strangely mine did not come with a spacer and I am out of VTA down VTA travel as well.

I started with the level half way up the square area as per the instructions. But the sound just lacked drive ,so after reading this thread i lowered the level to the bottom of the square portion and it made a huge improvement. The problem i have is i need to lower the VTA more and i run out of down travel. I have now added the cartridge spacer supplied by Graham and this allowed me to raise the VTA . But now the sound was underdamped so i raised the level of the damping fluid about 1/16" up the squared portion. I am assuming because of the spacers extra weight more damping fluid is required to control it. This combo sounds great but still don't have much down VTA adjustment, on some lp's i am at the full down position.

Those ticks are just registration marks."Very helpful",but you will do better to use your ears,with some reference LP's.Clearly audible.
Best.

Just got my Phantom mounted. I'm assuming you're using Magneglide at 3 ticks.

Frank,no secret method!I was loaned a Wallytractor,which looks to be supremely good at this,BUT what I do personally,is use my own set of reference LP's which I know "extremely well"!!This trumps any device,for me.I started out assuming the Wally would be required,but wound up using my ears,and my own set of set-up LP's!
Best.

Sirspeedy, speaking of azimuth....how do you verify "spot on" azimuth? BTW, I've been living with the fluid level just above the start of the squared off shank myself and it is much better.
Now if azimuth could be set accurately without the use of meters and test records, etc. I'd be ecstatic. What's your secret method? LOL..

Bofh,with tail up too much I don't like the tonal quality I get.Down gives me a slightly deadened sound.I am "about" parallel to the LP(cartridge body),with an itty bitty tail up position.BTW,the azimuth is "incredibly" important with this cartridge.Absolutely SPOT on is mandatory!!Remember,my cartridge is not close to being broken in,so things will change....An amazing little device though!!
Best

It's wonderful... I'm playing with VTA now... I'm finding that tail up is producing much better results for me than level or tail down. This is the exact opposite of any other cartridge I've ever owned.

Various searches that I've done are confirming this as well. Have you experienced the same with yours?

Bofh,I'm still playing with antiskate.I have a few more sessions before I really know it,in my set-up.Right now,I have "two" notches showing,on the "bar".Will be making more adjustments,for sure.BTW,the fluid,on the bottom of the squared off point,is "set in stone" for me,with my own Orpheus.....Nice cartridge,heh?
Best

I've been following this thread off and on since it started. In my previous configuration (using a Koetsu Jade) I got good results with the fluid level about 1mm past the start of the square shank (new bearing cap).

I just installed the Transfiguration Orpheus and found that I needed to remove some fluid... and am still fine-tuning. Looks like I'm going to land in nearly the same spot as Sirspeedy... just a smidge past the start of the square shank.

I actually took the level way down and the sound was very good, but on certain recordings the bass was getting muddy. I also noticed that the effect of the anti-skate appears to be increased with less fluid. Makes sense if you think about it.

With the low fluid level I was actually having problems with the armwand drifting to the outside of the LP as I was trying to lower it.

Sirspeedy: What kind of anti-skate setting are you using with the Orpheus? I'm finding that it doesn't need much... I currently have the weight set such that the first part of the thread is just barely showing.

Frank,you are right about the magnaglide stabilizing azimuth,but it does add a degree of damping.
BTW,you are in for a treat!!

I thought the whole point of magneglide was to keep azimuth stable or the stylus from rocking inside the groove. Apparently this is one of the so called inherent flaws of unipivots. So the magneglide and silicon fluid do similar but not the same thing, keeping the unipivot from "chattering" . I actually do not have my arm yet. It just arrived at the Canadian distributor so it should be here soon. I am comparing it to a little know German tonearm called a Musical Life Conductor. But, don't want to jack this thread.

Bob Graham DID mantion to me,that the magnaglide feature adds a degree of damping.It would not have much to do with azimuth,as Frank points out.It aids in damping the pivot.A darn good pivot,at that!!!
Best

Ducatirider, Do you own a Phantom tonearm?
I'm not aware of "magnetic azimuth damping". The magnaglide function has no connection with damping fluid level. Azimuth is adjustable via a moveable slide. Fluid level has nothing to do with VTA either.

The Magnetic damping is one reason for less fluid needed,than the 2.2.Yes,get it set right,and you can forget about it!!Unless you like to constantly adjust for each LP,which some folks do,and some don't.
I won't,I hope-:)

What about the magnetic azimuth damping? Does this affect the fluid level? How critical is the fluid level when things like vta will change depending on record thickness. Personally I'm a set and forget type of listener.

Frank,at one time I had a 150 gal,75 gal,50 gal,and two 20 gal "marine" set ups going,all at once!!I truly know the meaning of "pain in the tush" hobby.-:)Even had to hand feed certain species.
BTw,I still like to look at the aquarium mags,but am running out of patience,in my late middle age.Hence,the hope to just spin some damn vinyl,and forget all else.
Best.

I too have a second arm wand, same fit as the first. Sam

Sirspeedy, thanks for your insight, much appreciated. BTW, maintaining a tropical fish tank is no easier than what you're currently dealing with, believe me, LOL.

Frank,as to fluid level....As you know I am still in the set-up phase of my own arm.Probably for another two weeks,or so.
My friend has a Phantom/Orpheus combination,like me.I had re-set it up for him,at his request,and am continually playing around with it,as he likes me to set for certain characteristics,of his liking.I know it well!!
The fluid should be on the low side.Near the bottom of the squared off bearing.It will/should vary based on cartridge,but Bob Graham told me(about two months ago),to shoot for the lower settings here.Some go "dry",but I cannot possibly see this with an Orpheus. My 2.2 wound up about half way up,but it was much more sensitive to fluid.It was still a fabulous arm!!!
The Phantom is still very fluid sensitive(not nearly like the 2.2),based upon how crazy(like me)one wants to get.It still MATTERS!!!
Like you had stated about "sibilence" if the pivot to spindle distance is not perfect,the same basic sonic character occurs,when the fluid is not very well adjusted.The only way to do so is to have a standardized set of particular reference discs,which "speak to you" when all is optimal.
That's the main reason I am NOT keeping my current armboard,even though the slightly "off" positioning sounds good.I now realize "it could be better",so I will now break down the set-up("argh"),and start from scratch,with a new board,AND the Wallytractor(it should be on it's way,from dealer).
My Graham jig is useable(based on my previous experience)but it has play in it.More than my friend's jig.I am not about to complain as I feel lucky to have gotten the Phantom,what with the personal problems Bob is currently facing.I wish him the best,and am sure time will aid all.
A year ago I would definitely not be so insistive of this level of adjustment/fine tuning,but a 4300 dollar arm,and a 5,000 dollar cartridge demands it,I guess.Otherwise I'd always be thinking "what if"!!
Hmmm,I need to get an easier hobby.-:)...Tropical fish????

There is a keyway to align the wand with the main body, however it has too much play, I.M.O. If the tolerance of the keyway fit was tightened up a little, there would be less rotational error. I just purchased a second armwand to use with another cartridge so I'll see if there is any difference in fit with that one.

I'm waiting to hear from Sirspeedy with an update on the ultimate damping fluid level, as well as any other users who have experimented with different levels.

Frank sm,

Yep, my Phantom arm wand needs locate guide pins also. That was one of the first things I noticed . If the pin to plug centers were offset a bit, might have had a tighter fit! I hold the base and twist the arm wand clock wise,taking out the
2 degrees of slop till tight. It's real close every time. Sam

Yes,I am calling SOTA tomorrow(I have a new Cosmos),just to confirm.I am not too worried as I am tracing quite cleanly.
The armboard,as I can see,is going to be extremely difficult to drill "spot on"(my friend has a very similar situation with VPI,as of now),since the little peg(yes, I always check everything)must be absolutely perfectly aligned.
The way I view it......there is no adjustability in the Phantom's standard base/mount(unlike the SME mount,which can move,and is not such a bad idea).So with the screws drilled for the Phantom arm mount, which fits into the armboard,AND the holes drilled into the armboard,which screws into the table sub assembly,the amount of slight "play"(in the holes,and alignment)will always allow for a slight "off" position.I am about "maybe" 1/10 inch off,but I have compensated for this with the positioning of the cartridge,in the arm wand.What can I say!!!I don't want to drive myself crazier than I am,already!!!!
Of course I will recheck everything very carefully.
The bottom line is that in my first listening session,I am very close to being in the ball park.This,without playing around with the fluid,which definitely can aid,in voicing the arm.
What I did,this week,in anticipation of setting up my arm,was to go to two of my friends' homes(both have absolutely superb set-ups)and play my ref LP's!Then,I set up my new Phantom,and go from there.
As of now,with the Wally on the way,for re-checking,I hope to be in good shape.-:)

It's definitely a good idea to verify alignment with a good protractor but you mentioned that your armboard was drilled 0.100" out of spec. so how will you fix that?....if that is indeed the case.

Hmm,Frank I don't see/feel that particular wand problem.My jig has more play in it than my friend's,who lives 40 minutes away.I'm willing to bet that I am almost spot on,but want to be sure,hence the WAlly.
Best.

I always prove alignment with my own protrator (designed on my CAD system) and I am actually very impressed with the outcome of alignment using the Graham jig. As a machinist, I am a stickler for ultimate accuracy, hence all the questions I ask regarding fluid level.

If there is a downside to the Graham arm design, I would say the azimuth alignment/adjustment could be improved upon. I find it extremely difficult to install the armwand and repeat azimuth with any degree of accuracy. Bob obviously designed in the ability to adjust azimuth by moving the magnet up or down but I find it perplexing that the armwand has several degrees of play where it locates on the actual pins where the wand meets the base. If it was my design I would have implicated 2 pins to register the wand postively with the base for exact alignment to make swapping wands a "walk in the park" As it is now, I dread removing the armwand.