Good to know at least that Chakster is alive and not captive in some gulag for his political views.
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As you may glean from reading the earliest parts of this thread, I argued with Chakster that once you put a good OCL or other line contact stylus on a Ruby (meaning an F9 with a sapphire cantilever, which = Ruby), it begins to resemble the very rare derivatives that came later and which he owns or owned, at least hypothetically. Chak did not agree, wherever he is now.
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Tomic, this is one situation where the item really does get better over time. At least that was my experience after I retipped my Grace Ruby with the OCL stylus. At first it was a little too "clinical" sounding to my ears. But it definitely warmed up after many hours of listening.
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The high end Grace MM cartridges are top drawer by any standard, for any time period, in my opinion of course.
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So, you have an opinion, just like the rest of us. That is fine.
I understand that you are much younger than I, and you are only just now discovering the history. But I and probably others here actually were already audiophiles back in the day when LC-OFC copper and other variations on that theme (from companies other than Hitachi) were first announced and marketed. And, as I said, in my opinion, the LC-OFC wire was no big deal. In fact, I remember for sure that I heard it as inferior to whatever I was using back then. And this was before "silver" made a big splash in the audio world that is still reverberating. So, whatever I was comparing the Hitachi interconnects to (I bought a pair) was probably also copper. The SQ of an interconnect is very dependent upon the geometry of the winding, the dielectric, and on the connectors at each end, as well as to the wire per se. Whereas, you are talking about a coil of wire used as part of a transducer.
Similarly, you have been quoting promotional literature on other aspects of cartridge design as if it was scientific fact. I respectfully suggest that you consider that those companies were and are selling a product in a very competitive market. The pressure thus generated tends to result in hyperbole if not also outright fabrication in many cases. Did you also believe that CDs would achieve "perfect sound forever", as was written in the late 1980s?
Now to get back to the Grace Level II and F14. I have absolutely no doubt that those two lines may be superior to a Grace Ruby. I never claimed otherwise. I can guess at the qualities of the F14 and Level II, because I had one of my two Grace Ruby’s re-tipped by Sound Smith with their OCL stylus (on ruby/sapphire cantilever of course). And the re-tip is far better than the original elliptical version (I can play them side by side), even keeping in mind the possible effects of aging on my OEM Ruby. My listening experience suggests to me that the OCL stylus when introduced into the background of a Grace F9 Ruby, imparts some sonic qualities to the overall performance that improve SQ. This is as close to a controlled experiment as you can get in our world. But the plain fact of the matter is that I and most others cannot have a Level II or an F14 just by snapping my fingers. If one came up for sale, I would consider it. Meantime, I am quite happy with what I have. The Grace Ruby with OCL is not my very best cartridge, but I can listen to it without picking nits. I also own many other superb cartridges, and I do not feel deprived.
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Oh, please..."Oxygen-free copper" was and is a marketing tool. And the Hitachi wire is at best nothing special, if not even inferior to some other choices, like pure silver, in my opinion of course. Note that Hitachi is no longer in the high end audio business; they didn't exactly take over the world with their copper.Like I said before, I have no doubt that your Grace F14 and Level II cartridges sound wonderful. Congratulations. But you don't know exactly why, and neither do I. Just enjoy them. Correlation is not causation.
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I remember when interconnects made from LC-OFC copper were a marketing tool. I think Hitachi was one of the first companies to brag about it. Then many users (including me) found out it was no big deal in terms of any enhancement of sound quality. Further, there is no evidence that a coil made of LC-OFC would operate any differently from a coil made of any other good quality copper; even its adherents recommend it for ICs and the like.
The notion that "gold and silver, being precious metals, generally are far too expensive for electronic use" surely must seem specious even to you, Chak. We have gold this and silver that all over the place in audio. Also, gold ranks well behind copper and silver in conductivity (with silver being slightly better than copper and both being way better than gold), not the other way around. The chief virtue of gold is its stability; it tends not to oxidize, which is a problem with silver and copper, although silver oxide is still an excellent conductor whereas copper oxide is not. Thus gold is often used as a plating over copper to prevent oxidation.
And finally, you say above that F8 and F9 series were not made with exotic cantilever materials, among which you list sapphire. But we do have the F9 Ruby since the 70s; as you know, sapphire and ruby are synonymous terms, maybe not for a jeweler but for cartridge manufacturers. I would submit that an F9 Ruby re-tipped by Soundsmith with their OCL stylus ought to have many of the same virtues as the Level II and F14 models, albeit not the rarity. I am happy for you that you own and enjoy so many unobtainium cartridges, but let's keep this in perspective. |
Both MC and MI types have lower moving mass than any MM, if that’s the holy grail in cartridge construction. Lately I’ve been listening to a B&O MMC1 that I bought several years ago in NOS condition. It has a hollow sapphire tube cantilever and a line contact stylus. Tracks at 1.0 gm. It’s a moving iron type. After only a few hours, it’s brilliant. I am rather shocked.
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Compliance does not change much, unless you also change the suspension elements, which should not be necessary in most cases and was not done in the case of my Ruby. On the contrary, I would think that an NOS OEM cartridge built in the 80s is more likely to suffer from stiffening of the suspension due to both elapsed time and lack of use, compared to a cartridge that has at least been used once in a while over that same period of time. Anyway, I do have it both ways (one with original cantilever and stylus vs another re-tipped by SS), and the latter version is superior.
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Dear Chakster, You may be correct about the excellence of the Level II Grace cartridges. However, it is not always a good idea to judge a cartridge solely by the materials of which it is made or by the shape of the stylus. My only point is that I would have to have heard a level II in order to throw caution to the wind and make such a purchase at the asking price. Also, my reservations about the asking price of the cartridge on eBay are not only based on its age and unknown condition (although those factors are important, to be sure), but also on the fact that I have no opportunity to inspect the cartridge and no leverage on a seller who is 6000 miles away in another country, eBay rules notwithstanding.
By the way, the Ruby jumps up another level with the SS re-tip using their OCL stylus. I own both an original elliptical one and a re-tipped one and have compared them extensively. At first, I preferred the elliptical but not after the SS re-tipped one had about 10 hours of playing time on it.
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Ceramics used in audio, sounds like a sexy idea, but every such implementation has been short-lived, so far. This suggests to me that it doesn't work very well. Kenwood made an optional ceramic mat for the L07D. They are VERY rare. I think they are rare because they did not sound as good as the standard stainless steel platter sheet and were unloved. But still sexy.
Chakster, When you wrote the above post on the 29th, did you know there is a Level II Grace for sale now on eBay, and that the seller is Russian? Asking price is way too high for a vintage cartridge that has unknown provenance and performance. I say this as a great admirer of the Grace Ruby, both with its original stylus and with an SS OCL re-tip. (I own both versions.) |
Can you provide more information? I've never heard of "Grace Level II". I own and enjoy a Grace Ruby. Thanks. |
Given the wonderfulness of my Ruby, I would be curious to listen to an F14. The nomenclature is still a bit confusing to me. There is "Level II" and within Level II there are F11 and F14? Is that correct? I've never heard of these cartridges maybe because I have not paid much attention to those very late Grace products. However, I do think the Ruby was made well into the 80s, at least. Correct me if I am wrong. |
