Goodbye Sonos, hello ????

08-08-13: Williewonka
One last thing - Audirvana loads the entire track into memory before playing,so there tends to be a slight delay on the HD tracks, but then you can use wireless without any dropouts while playing

Interesting stuff Williewonka. I found wired is MUCH superior to wireless so will check out Audirvana. Currently rolling different ethernet cables. :-)

I have changed the settings to point to my NAS folder

You can change this in settings, but if you close iTunes, the next time you start it, it resets the library folder back to the default folder (at least on the iMac platform - another bloody wart)

On Windows, I found it TRUE if the folder is on an external drive and external drive is not connected to the computer.

knghifi - GET OUTTA HERE!!! Rolling ethernet cables - really? :-)

Every cable in my system makes a DIFFERENCE, why NOT ethernet? Hopefully they will arrive next week ...

I saw Michael Fremer's Newport Show interview where he mentioned AQ ethernet cable demo. Hard wired much superior to wireless. AQ entry level ethernet cable much superior to generic brand. Couldn't hear a difference between AQ entry and best ethernet cable.

The computer based ones were easier to assess and cheaper to implement - plus you can change interfaces pretty easily and as sample rates get better you can grow with them.

However - with computers you do have to do a fair bit of investigation and setup and there can be some setbacks along the way.

Having worked in computers for 39 years my choice was easy, but it's not for everyone

Boxed solutions are close to plug and play once connected to the network, so for some a boxed solution is preferable

There is clearly a market for both products and they both have similar performance capabilities - it's really a matter of which one suites the person using it

Luckily I understand computers so NO black box for me. I want the flexibility and don't want to deal with someone elses bugs and limitations.

In order for a DAC/computer to play/process, data must be loaded into memory whether via transport or computer. The only difference is computers offers options in ripping and serving the data. Too many options are overwhelming for computer challenged unlike a transport just load the disc and hit play.

I switched to computer audio 6+ yrs ago. I use Itune ripping cds to Apple Lossless and high rez to flac. Use Logitech Media Server or PS Audio Music Manager to serve the music to the DAC. IPhone to control the devices. There are zillions other ways now but this works for me so no reason to change unless to improve quality of sound. Will probably look into Apple mini server and running vm (virtual machine) next.

Over the years I've made improvements by going hardwired from wireless, new computer configurd runnig only necessary services to save cpu cycles, copied all my music to computer internet hard drive ... now rolling ethernet cables.

I believe computer audio has arrived years ago and it's only to get more confusing with more options/improvements ... not going to get easier.

I suggest to get started, pick/install A ripping and serving software. Start simple, get it working and once gain knowledge, then experiment.

Tboooe,

With wireless, sounds like something is missing, not as continuous, coherent, and vivid. In theory if the buffer is big enough, it shouldn't be a problem, but ...

IE: Watching a video in a browser, flash player buffers data to avoid interruption when play begins. When buffer runs out whether slow server, bad connection ... , play stops and re-buffers before start again.

Take it one step further, if buffers whole track or cd before play, essentially changed loading data into memory from a synchronize to asynchronize operation which is much simpler to implement. No need for over priced transports, external clocks ... Abstract out the interface and only requirement is loading data before play.

Got my AQ ethernet cable and it's a major improvement over HD cable. Similar going from wireless to wired +1.

Michael Fremer interview .

Let's try Michael Fremer interview link again.

Michael Fremer Interview

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/analogplanet-editor-appears-scott-wikinsons-home-theater-geeks-podcast-0

Williewonka, my AQ Cinnamon ethernet cables have ~24 hrs and the improvement is DRAMATIC over generic cable. I took MF advice and bought middle grade. It cost me < $300 for 3 cables from Audio Advisor so very inexpensive experiment. :-):-)

Vicdamone, Thanks for the tip.

Williewonka, old are Cat5. New according to AQ website, Cat7, 300 MHz??. There's enough bandwidth in Cat5 100 MHz so don't think bandwidth is why AQ is superior. I'm only running AQ from router to DAC.

My setup is very very simple. Music store internal hard drive. Running PS Audio or Logitech Media Server (can never get JRiver to sound good on my machines) on my computer. Use Lyric app on iphone for control.

I have a modest level system but high enough resolution where I can easily detect direction of a fuse. Every parameter improved, detail, resolution ... but most obvious is 3D, better separation between images in soundstage where I'm hearing new things in familiar recordings, some hi-rez no longer sound light weight ... just PRAT.

I had whole family over last night and they couldn't believe all I changed was a stupid Ethernet cable.

I don't know your system but only way to know is to HEAR it in your system.

For an audiophile, removing anything from Home Depot is always a good thing. LOL!!!

but since Audirvana buffers a complete track (i.e. when playing from a hard drive) it should have no impact on playback.

Disagree! Buffering on the server side has nothing to do with transmission to the client ... synchronization is still required during playback between both parties. IE: IC between components, SC between amp and speakers. All cables sound different.

Now if the Dac buffers everything before play, then cables should not make a difference. Synchronization is broken and Dac just process data in it's own buffer.

Knghifi - not everything - I've found Home Depot MDF is good for shelves :-)

Good point :-)

It would be nice to now how the various streaming devices actually stream data, then the impact of good network cables would be easier to assess.

For instance, when I was using the Apple TV to stream it seemed anything I tried improved the sonic quality - even upgrading the power cord to a Furutech on the Apple TV made a real sonic improvement.

Like audio cables, just trust your ears and don't think too hard. Well, that's what I do when dealing in this stupid hobby.

Since switching to the iMac and Audirvana Plus, which loads the entire track into memory, I found that having the same Furutech power cable on the iMac did not make any difference to sonic quality once I removed it.

I'm not surprise. The operation has changed to asychronize. With whole track in memory, DAC just process data in memory and doesn't care if the data was loaded from the cloud, computer, transport with Home Depot PC ...

I received an email from Damien of Audirvana and he says, for streaming content directly from the web e.g. radio, it loads several seconds of a track before it starts playing and by the time that 5 seconds has finished playing the rest of the track has been buffered in computer memory - and by the time that track has finished playing the next track is buffered and ready to play - and so on.

This is similar to what Adobe flash player does. It wants to buffer enough data so when plays begin to avoid interruptions.

Next time you talk to damien, ask if he tried loading whole disc in memory before play and compare sound quality. Only down side is lag time before play begins. He can make it an option to load track or whole disc before play.

So I am thinking that since Audirvana buffers so much data, upgrading network cables might not be as beneficial in my setup as it is in your own.

But since the upgrade to cat7 is relatively inexpensive and the fact I will have to do it at some point in time - I'll give it a whirl - what the heck:-)

You'll probably correct so buy the less expensive AQ Forest. Everything is system dependent. In my system, this is one of the best ROI tweaks. I have to check out Audirvana next so thanks for the tip.

Williewonka, I'm a Linux and Windows guy. Didn't find much info on Audirvana.

Is Audirvana a program that runs on a Mac, read and cache the data and sends it to a DAC? Basically a music server?

Basically it's a media player that can be standalone or integrate with iTunes

Then AQ ethernet cable will definitely make a difference. I thought audirvana was a DAC with a big buffer.

the cable between the iMac and the DAC will make a difference - In my case that is a USB cable

OK, I thought you use ethernet between computer and DAC.

Even though my DAC has asychronized USB, I much prefer ethernet and who wants a PC in their system rack. LOL!!!

Confirmed - cat7 network cables didn't improve playback on my setup...

NAS ->cat7 -> router ->cat7 -> iMac + Audirvana -> USB -> DAC

Your result is not surprising. Me changing Ethernet is equivalent to you changing USB.

Next - upgrade the router :-)

Why if Audirvana caches the track before play? You should not hear any improvements changing anything before your iMac.

Now if the DAC caches, one should not hear any differences changing anything before it. Not even a belt driven transport. If you build them, they will come. LOL!!!