Good tube pre amp for a mostly digital system

I agree with Kurt, if you don't need SACD and redbook digital is your only source, grab a AA Capitole II and skip the preamp.
If looking for a balanced tube preamp, the above mentioned BAT's, ARC's and Atma-sphere's can all be added to your list.

FWIW, have you tried the Marantz w/o the Bel Canto DAC?
I would think that cd player would sound better w/o the DAC.
I have a BAT tube preamp with my Jeff Rowland amps (Model 6 monoblocks), and it sounds great. I also have a highly modified Marantz SA-11S1, and don't feel the need for a seperate DAC. I use a preamp because I have 4 sources.

I also love the way the Marantz handles SACD's. If I was rebook cd's only, I'd definitely go after a Audio Aero Capitole and skip the preamp.

John

Chazz, keep in mind that Mariasplunge is looking for balanced outputs for her Rowland amps. I think this would leave out CJ, AI, Hovland, Rogue, and many other tube preamps.

Mariasplunge, if you're thinking about a tuner and a turntable down the road, I would think that you would want a preamp. Maybe even a preamp with a built in phono stage, like the Aesthetix Janus. The Janus is similar to the highly rated Calypso line stage, but has a rendition of the Aesthetix Rhea phono preamp built in. I'm not saying that you have to get a preamp with a built in phono stage, but if you are thinking of getting a turntable, I would recommend getting a preamp, and a phono stage is another consideration. You'll have to decide if you want a preamp with an internal phono stage or have a seperate phono stage. You cannot just plug a turntable into any line input. This is something you should consider.

Either way, if you are considering additions in the future, I'd ditch the Bel Canto DAC/preamp and try running the Marantz through a nice tube preamp. The AA is the only unit that I would run straight into SS amps. I have to have tubes somewhere in the chain. :)

BTW, you can't run the Marantz straight into the Rowland's, you must have some kind of a volume control (preamp). I just think the Marantz DAC's will sound better than the Bel Canto's. They do to me anyway. Can you use the Bel Canto as a preamp only? Or do you have to use the DAC section too?

John

Well I've heard every complaint about BAT out there. Too transparent, too dark, etc. These are contradictory by the way. Too transparent usually means bright, and I know folks who think that BAT's are too dark, so it's probably a synergestic thing.

I'm expecting a BAT VK-32SE in tomorrow (Friday) for an audition. I've owned BAT VK-31SE, VK-50SE and VK-51SE. I've also owned CJ Premier 16LS mk II, VAC Renaissance mk II, Cary SLP-98. I would say that the CJ, VAC and Cary may sound a little 'tubier', but the BAT was much better with dynamics, power, extension and soundstage. The BAT is not the warmest tube preamp out there if that's what you're looking for, but it has actual bass definition that the 'tubey' sounding preamps don't have. The BAT definitely has tube like characteristics, more so than any solid state preamps, but some tube-o-philes like syrupy sweetness, which the BAT doesn't have. The other side is that the sweeter tube preamps don't have the power and dynamics of the BAT. Pick your poison.

FWIW, the ARC Ref 3 is also supposedly a great preamp, but with no phono. I personally do not want a preamp with an inboard phono stage though, because all of those tubes are running all of the time, even if you're listening to cd's and not using the phono tubes, the phono tubes are still burning.

For example, the Aesthetix Janus has 4 line section tubes, just like the Calypso, but it also has 8 tubes in the phono stage. So all 12 tubes are running all the time, whether you're listening to vinyl, cd, tuner, or whatever. When you find out the replacement costs of good tubes, this may be an issue for you, as it was for me. That's why I prefer a seperate outboard phono stage. Only use the phono stage when spinning vinyl.

BTW, the BAT's internal phono stage is an inexpensive $500 solid state plug in board. The Aesthetix Janus is a $2000 tube based phono stage. Quite a difference. Atma-sphere also makes a balanced tube preamp with a built in phono stage. Warning though, the Atma-sphere has no remote, if this means anything to you. However, it also has a nice built in tube phono stage (4 tubes line stage, 7 tubes phono).

That's about all I can think of that meet your requirements. Full Function (phono + line stages), tube and balanced outputs. Aesthetix Janus, Atma-sphere MP-3 both have tube phono and line stages, and a BAT is a tube line stage with a SS VK-3 phono board. Oh, and VAC makes several preamps that are tube and have inboard phono stages. They have balanced inputs and outputs, but are not truely balanced designs like those mentioned above. This means that their internal circuitry is single ended, but they have XLR ins/outs and use transformers to change the signal from Bal to SE and then back to BAL at the output.

As you can see, the more features you want, the more you paint yourself into a corner with selection.

John

I agree that it's best to go with a seperate phono stage, that will give you a lot more preamp choices as well. Does that put the Cary SLP-05 back in the lead? That's supposed to be a very nice preamp, though I haven't heard one yet.
Choosing the digital and the preamp will depend on what values you prefer when listening to music.

For instance, the BAT will present more musical weight and power, while the Aesthetix will present more air and detail to the music. Search the archives and read what people like and/or did not like about specific models.

Same with the cd players. Of the three that you mention, the AA would give you the most warmth and musicality, but it's redbook only. The Cary and Ayre will give you more detail and transparency. Of these three, I would prefer the AA Prestige (gotta have my SACD). The Prestige is much more expensive than the Ayre or Cary though. If going with the AA Capitole, I'd probably choose the Ayre, because I gotta have my SACD. First listen to your Marantz though, as it will be closer sonically to the AA camp than the Ayre/Cary camp. This will give you some reference. Then also know that Marantz has also just released the SA-7S1 which retails for $6999, and also may be a strong contender.

Only you can determine what musical direction you want to go in. Do you want more transparency and detail? Do you want richer tonality and musicality? There are different products out there for folks that want different things. It's best to first know what direction you want to travel before starting on your journey.

Cheers,
John

Patience grasshopper...patience. If I could go back and do it all over again that would be the one key...patience.

Wait for your speakers to be repaired, then settle in and really listen to you system. Some pieces may still require some burn in.

Richer tonality, musicality and palpable air certainly do go together, and it does sound like you want to go to tubeland. I would agree that the Bel Canto DAC/preamp could well be the weak link.

After everything is fixed, listen and get a good feel for what your system sounds like. Then I would recommend trying a tube preamp first, since that Marantz SA-11S1 is a pretty good stand alone cd player. Once you settle in on a preamp, then you can take the next step towards a digital upgrade, tuner and/or turntable.

One step at a time, don't try to do everything at once or you're asking for trouble. For many of us it takes years to set up a system right. Rome wasn't built in a day. :)

Take your time and research the archives here and at Audio Asylum before you buy. Lots of great resources.

John

That's more like it. You can help the burn in process by leaving all equipment powered up 24/7, and even leave the system playing with a disc on repeat. I'm burning in a new preamp now. I just have the Ayre/Cardas disc on repeat when I'm not listening to the system. I can even turn the amps off, because they are already burned in, and I don't have to hear those test tones. :)

However, yes, listening to your sonic desires, I would say that a tube preamp is in your future. Keep us posted.

Cheers,
John

Actually Bart, Mariasplunge is a dude named Peter.