Good, Neutral, Reasonably Priced Cables?

Ok, I'll take the bait at the risk of getting schooled again as to one reason why most Mfg'rs don't engage in a thread like this...the debates gets old and usually all's most folks want to do is prove they're right. Though some folks enjoy the pedestal of "god on a stick" that's not a position I desire to set myself up as so...

I'll preface this post with a couple of things. First, I have no intention of debating with anyone what we do, why we do what we do and/or the legitimacy of it all. Our clients can speak to some of that if they wish to. I'll only say this: our customer satisfaction (no return policy exercised) has been 96.8% of our total sales. We're shamelessly proud of that.

What findings and techniques I'm willing to share here are informational and that's it. If you find value in it, good for you. If not that's okay and further, it won't surprise me if Sean or someone else wants to do an apparent credible job of discrediting what we do here. That will be a shame.

I take a degree of pride in who I am and how that contributes to my and other enthusiast's enjoyment of reproduced music. I'm a musician and music lover first. Then I'm an artisan and thirdly an engineer with enough experience to be so but no formal education. With current culture and, what I think is contrary to our current value system, I consider the above an asset to what Ridge Street does and has to offer. As a musician, it's a passionate hobby. As an occupation, what started out as a passionate hobby of about twenty years has turned into Ridge Street Audio Designs going on ten years.

I suppose the main thing I think is worth addressing here is that science and engineering certainly have their value in audio but it is in no wise the be all/end all that too many folks in any field (but I think especially audio and, dare I say, wire!) laud it to be...even in 21st century! I think this lauding keeps people stuck. I've not shared this before but one of my approaches to "un-stucking" enthusiasts is I don't talk about everything we do with our cabling. If I did it would be a stumbling block for some people...especially for those who like numbers, graphs, measurements, white papers, facts, facts and more facts etc. to give the only credibility as to how something in audio might sound. Like I'm sure at least some of us, I've discovered too that some things that have been defined as hugely important aren't and some things that are said not to matter are hugely important. If I were strictly an engineer or scientist and didn't venture outside that frame or strictly relied upon that frame, I doubt my conclusions would be the same. Anyway...all this.

For those of us that will look, entertain and find some relevance to what's outside the "nine dots"...

Capacitance, inductance and/or resistance values in and of themselves mean little in any given cable. Characteristic impedance is very important to optimize in a given cable application. As Sean has said, with speaker cables it's difficult but easier to optimize for. Contrary to what has been said, there are ways around it for I/Cs but admittedly there are trade-offs. Fortunately, when other things are accounted for, those trade-offs are mostly inconsequential with today's better electronics. How the characteristic impedance actually performs is of the most importance and, to my knowledge, is a parameter no one else is considering and/or talking about.

Whether your fancy is Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum or Polyflatulent, purity is important. The quality factor of a conductor or "Q" as I've termed it for us is more important and is distinct from a conductor's purity. A high purity/low Q conductor will not sound as good as a lower purity/high Q conductor. The later is also a more expensive material. A higher purity/higher Q conductor is best...da! and is a more expensive material...da da! As for silver which is what we use, regardless of what rep someone has or how distinguished they are in the market place, there is no 6n or 7n actual silver purity. Am I popular yet! LOL!

Surface area distribution is more important than conductor gauge.

Organic insulators are best. As is of prime importance to Van den Hul for example, sealing a cable so that it's protected from the elements is very important. The down side of this type of insulator is it's more difficult to protect it from the outside envirnoment but a cable can be protected if the proper care and technique is applied and it can be done in such a manner that it doesn't degrade sonic performance. Marketing ploy: Our cables float in water. So far, that marketing approach has not worked for us...LOL!

Construction technique is as important and should work hand-in-hand with a cable's topology. They should not be mutually exclusive of each other. One with out the other makes for an inferior cable.

Cable burn-in is a good thing to do. Cable break-in is different, is system dependant and, in our view, is more important but should not take the place of burn-in.

So, again all this. I hope there's some value in this for some of you. I suppose some of this may be sort of vague but I have found the details behind this stuff to be important. For those who might question some of this, good for you. If you're inclined to bash the hell out of some of this I think a better suggestion is to go on your own mission, discover what you discover and develop your own business out of that. That would be good and I'm betting we could inspire and learn a bit from each other.

Finally, I love this and it's served as a montra for me since I saw this on Simon York's site some time ago. I trust you'll enjoy it too…

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

George Bernard Shaw

...Damit! I hit the submit button instead of the edit button.

Organic insulators...best but in a manufacturing environment, not practical to do properly. Especially if you need to sell tons of cabling to support your marketing campaign. Oops, I shouldn't have said that.

Sean, you're findings about the Goertz S/Cs is spot on I think. I agree with much of their approach. Honestly though, it mifs me a bit that you seem to talk almost ex-cathedra about those cables when you have no knowledge or experience about our speaker cables...the Ridge Street's are better (but of course and says I). Sorry to come across as a personal attack. My "mif" probably says more about my envy or jelousy than your comments. But I feel better now...LOL!?

Finally, again, some of you might visit our web site as a result of my previous post. I apologize in advance. The site needs to be overhauled (which will happen over the next weeks). While I think the site "looks" fairly nice, it's not informative as I would like it and it's really out dated from when it was originally done to where we are now. Not enough days in the hour to do everything I want sometimes.

Cheers,
Robert

...See how I go here. I forgot one other thing I wanted to assert.

The simplest circuits executed with excellence and with the best parts or materials will be the most revealing...both of its own "character" and of other components. I believe cabling has the greatest potential for this. For this reason, I also believe that well designed cabling, i.e. as neutral as possible, should serve as the foundation for assembling a system. I know this flies in the face of conventional thinking. And lest some of you think..."but of course, you sell cables!" I promise you that this view is not going to contribute any significance to Ridge Street's sales. Our 3.2% return ratio will probably dwarf how many people buy into this perspective. I consider that a shame but, so be it.

Here's some of my experience and thinking behind this: You go to the show room and here this beautiful music on this system that took who knows how long to dial in. You're looking for a CPD and like this one in this system. You buy it for $249.999.98. It's gotta be the best if not really good. You get it home and it sounds like a toaster...but a really nice one. What happened? I say that too many times, one of the contributing factors is the cabling used acted as tuning agent. That's fine if that's how you want to approach assembling a system and you want to spend ten years going in circles doing it. Some folks enjoy that kind of journey and I trust they learn a lot. I know some enthusiasts like this and they do have a lot of valuable input and info to share.

On the other hand, if efficiency is a priority, experience tells me that neutral cabling allows me to hear what that CDP really sounds like and judge more competently if the player suites my biases. When evaluating a component, not only do I use my music, I also use my cabling. I think the last thing I want to do is spend my hard earned $249,999.98 on that CDP only to have it "tuned" to something else by the editorial signature of a lesser cable. BTW, did you know that there are some well known cable manufacturers that base their designs on what will work euphorically with top selling speakers or amps, etc. primarily so they can sell more product and acquire a more reputable name as best? Not necessarily a bad thing but interesting.

Well, I hope you get the idea here. The above is kind of simplistic or a thumbnail of what I'm saying but like I said, I hope you get the idea. I know some of us know this but cabling can make or break a system and sometimes when the system is found to sound broke, it's not a function of the cables. If I have my preferences and biases defined, I believe using neutral as possible cabling as my foundation will allow me to assemble a system that meets my requirements more surely and be more satisfying over the long haul. It seems my wallet stays happier too.

I'll get philosophical here as to perhaps one reason why this approach seems not easy to embrace. Us grown ups, men and woman, are just kids (like when we were little) playing adults. This is good and at heart, we're just beautiful or charming (and some of us ornery) kids playing the game. We all have our peers. For some of us kids, the community we live in has become the neighborhood we "play" in, for some the world is their neighborhood. Others still, it's the net or whatever. Boys like their toys for the sense of adventure and discovery it gives them and like to share and/or impress other boys (and girls too but it doesn't seem to work real well) with their toys...Audio gear works well here. Cars, guns, fishing gear, wine or cigar collections and other stuff works well too. For woman, MaryKay works well so they can play Dress Up. Shopping, though the current constraints of our culture make it more difficult, is an allure to women so they can buy beautiful clothes and make up so they can be the princes they are meant to be. Beauticians of one sort or another are employed so a woman can be the princes. I'm glad. Girls play dolls when they're little and from this, in part have developed their natural ability to be nurturers for men (not mothers, guys) and children.

Somehow big amps and cool looking speakers are typically what we're drawn to. They have obvious substance that peak our inquisitiveness and are bulk enough to impress while wire is....well, it's wire. Everything it is and does is obviously not obvious. Do you get what I'm suggesting here. It's really kind of funny I think but it's human. The hierarchy of wire and it's place and function in a system and the position we give it can be allegorized like this I think: Buy your wife a car because she deserves it and she'll appreciate you. (Why didn't this reach her heart? I don't get it.) Pick a flower yourself from a field of daisies you pass by on your way home from work and give it to her because you think it reflects her beauty and she'll appreciate you and love you (Why did this reach her heart? I don't get it.) and...even after 20 + years...you might still get some. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Thanks for indulging me on this.

So, agree or disagree. There is at least some value and helpfulness in all this...No?

Cheers,
Robert

Sean, In regards to your question, I would naturally love to splat what I've learned here and puff myself up (or not) but let's do this: Let's see if another manufacturer will take the opportunity to address some of the purity/quality issue. As of now, Ridge Street is the only one I'm aware of that concerns themself or makes a point about this issue. Not full fledged rocket science but it seems to be one of those details that no one is noticing and thereby giving due attention to.

If no one chimes in I will but I won't divulge it fully since it's something we address and part of what sets us apart from what others are doing.

Kind Regards,
Robert

Hi Albert.

Forgive me for leaving a door open that could appear I was making fun of Purist Audio. That was not my intention at all. I was just trying to be a little light hearted and I didn't forsee that it could look like fun at the expense of Purist Audio. I have a lot of respect for their innovation and approach.

Kind Regards,
Robert

...and schooled again I am. Sorry you're not able to appreciate what I am willing to share Sean. Like I suggested if you want more facts and so forth, then go on your own mission and start your own business if you find your product has something of value to offer. Like it or not, I bet your position would change from serving an agenda to protecting your interests while trying to be helpful at the same time.

What I posted is about as good as I'm willing to let it get. Otherwise, it's like I said, everything turns into challenges, debate and who's the most right. As a result a few players get to have x amount of champions in their little corner and the champions get to parade around their "god on a stick". Meanwhile too much stays stuck for the wrong reasons.

I believe what I posted did a credible job of communicating that Ridge Street is not another "me too" Mfgr who simply shoves wire through a Teflon tube, braids it, posts a few favorable numbers, waves their hand over it and proclaims the latest and greatest has arrived. I believe I communicated that there is real thought, innovation and purpose behind what we do. As for numbers, graphs, white papers, facts, facts and more facts to appease those who base their judgments on such…forget about it. For everyone who wags and doesn't "agree" with the numbers, there will be a hundred who do or don't care. For everyone who wags and does "agree" with the numbers, there will be another hundred who don't or don't care. This type of camp usually drives me up the wall to some extent. Music is usually and mostly an intellectual exercise for them that also affirms for them they have really cool gear. I've never had anyone report back to us and say "Man! I've never heard such good inductance (or D factor or whatever)! My system's inductance has never sounded so good!" Our customers usually just say who much more they're enjoying their music. Not very technical, I know. Which reminds me….

Customers coming to our rescue? Sean, please! Who said that? Why did you interpret what I said that way? Well, really, I think I already know why. I wasn't being clever and looking for a rescue. I suppose it would be a "feel good" for me if any of our clients would post here but what I consider more important and take as a compliment is that I think most of our clients have a life they live of which their music is a part of and they're busy living their life and enjoying their music as time permits. They use these boards for whatever help they may need at times and as for engaging in endless debate…who's got time for that?

If I understand correctly from what I've seen of your posts, you're an advocate and self appointed watchdog for the enthusiast. Good for you and I applaud that. Nevertheless, simply because some manufacturer doesn't promote or sell their wares the way you think they should doesn't make them illegitimate. It seems that if one conflicts with how you think the world of audio should look, then your agenda or views or whatever doesn't get fueled. Your suspicions are served and all is obviously a scam in your view. So it seems to me anyway and I bet I'm not alone. (somebody please post here and rescue me!!! LOL!) You are not the be all/end all for enthusiasts and whether a company is legit or not. I'll assume you already know that but perceptions say different sometimes.

I'll make clear this too while I'm thinking about it. They are plenty of manufacturers who post this fact or that measurement or whatever. Good for them and I for one would not say that's stupid, useless or whatever. That's how some companies choose to promote their product. If that were how I chose to promote, believe me, you or anyone else wouldn't have to ask for "proof". I would just do it. Interesting though that still, with all the "proof" some companies chose to offer, it still comes down to listening and still, no one has cornered the market with any audio "stuff". "Stuff"…just so you know in case you're thinking otherwise, we have invested thousands of dollars over the years on "stuff" so we have some clue as to what we're doing. And no, I didn't get took by someone selling a Rat Shack SPL meter (the decent analog, not the digital) at four hundred times the regular price.

I'll share this just cause I think it's good analogy. I'm a percussionist. Let's say I've just written a five part solo score along the lines of what Terry Bozzio innovates. Someone says "Oh I'd like to know what it sounds like." I say "okay, sure." and hand them the sheet music and sit back and wait for a response. Suddenly I'm lauded as a great percussionist!…I don't think so. In the score I've added a peculiar twist where a cymbal pattern that rides an ostinato changes from 4/4 to 7/8 to form a polyrhythm and someone who understands and knows how to read looks at it and says "that won't work! It won't flow.". I play it so he hears it and suddenly it's like "hey, that's really cool! I never would have thought of putting that together like that." Or maybe he says it sounds like crap…LOL! Anyway, I think this illustrates some of what I'm trying to say.

BTW Sean, I'll assume you're correct that another Mfgr won't chime in here in regards to the purity/Q thing and I'll also forgive your found less accusation that I was trying to dodge one of your bullets. Purity has to do with the level of impurities. We all know that I think. Q has to do with levels of types of impurities.

BTW, how did you know I like cowboy boots? I really do…LOL! But I'm not a cowboy, I don't have a ten gallon hat to finish the image and I don't have spurs or jangles on my boots. I just like cowboy boots. I also like Converse Chucky T tennis shoes, flip-flops and stream lined tailored dress shoes. Outside of that, I run bare foot a lot 'cause I like that too.

Again, all this. Debate and flame or do whatever amongst yourselves if you must. Sean I'm guessing you'll have at least something to say that seems to look good or apparently de-bunk what we do. It won't cause us to go away and it won't change the validity of what we offer. I'll let you have the last word so the king can reign over his little kingdom.

Cheers,
Robert

Albert...
Now I feel sort of bad. After looking at that statement again I think I see exactly how someone else might interpret that differently than what I intended.

Here was my thought process: The context was oxidation and I know humidity is a very good carrier for cables to oxidize under and if they're not protected, in time they will oxidize. Our cables could have been very susceptible to that but, like I mentioned, we've thoroughly addressed that. So much so that (and here's where my joke begins) I play with our cables in the bath tub and low...they float! Hey, what a marketing campaign we could build from this! Plaster it all over our web site and thousands of consumers now own cables that not only perform great but they float in the tub too!

I thought that imagery was kind of comical and thought I said just enough that one could form their own similar imagery. Looks like I gave too much leeway.

Again, I apologize. Am I off the hook?

Kind Regards,
Robert

Okay Sean, we're past novel. We're talkin' volume here.

I just went back and re-read my original post and tried to look at it through different eyes. I think some of it appears too self serving. I'm okay with what I said but honestly, I think I could have said some things in a more helpful manner for others. Example:

...I'll only say this: our customer satisfaction (no return policy exercised) has been 96.8% of our total sales. We're shamelessly proud of that.

I could have said (in my thousand words or more style):"...to perhaps establish a bit of credibility to what I'll share we believe are some important things when searching out excellent cabling, our customer satisfaction Blah, Blah Blah..."
I'm still shamelessly proud of the stat because it validates what we believe and how it's contributed to enthusiasts enjoyment of their music but maybe I could have said it in a manner that pointed to my intent to be helpful.

Since I've discovered this Quote tag thing here, I'm gonna go nuts with it.

Sean wrote:

When asked specific questions about this, you defaulted. I don't know if you did this hoping that others might enter the fracas and draw attention away from the situation or for someone to tell me to shut-up and play nice. Only problem is, i don't think that there's anyone coming to your rescue and others have finally realized that you don't get honest answers by "dancing around" the subjects being discussed.

You seem to make pretty substantial leaps from reality to fantasy sometimes. C'mon Sean. Did you read what I said? It wasn't a deflection and it wasn't a "rescue" tactic. I said:

Sean, In regards to your question, I would naturally love to splat what I've learned here and puff myself up (or not) but let's do this: Let's see if another manufacturer will take the opportunity to address some of the purity/quality issue. As of now, Ridge Street is the only one I'm aware of that concerns themself or makes a point about this issue. Not full fledged rocket science but it seems to be one of those details that no one is noticing and thereby giving due attention to.

If no one chimes in I will but I won't divulge it fully since it's something we address and part of what sets us apart from what others are doing.

I didn't say "er...uh...Oh Look! My toast is burning! I gotta go!"

Sean wrote:

Maybe i'm wrong here and you might be a nice guy and all, but telling stories about how things should work and explaining why they do or don't and what makes your product different based on verifiable facts & research is what i was expecting.

Not all the universe revolves around Your expectations and when it doesn't, it doesn't mean it's worthless for everyone because it doesn't meet your criteria.

Sean wrote:

Psychic built you up as someone that could do all of the above, but i've seen no evidence to support his beliefs or expectation.

I can't help what my friend has built me up as. To me, I'm just Bob. But I do appreciate his confidence in us. So, since you've "seen no *evidence* to support his beliefs or expectation (whatever that means)" does that mean he's nuts? Wait, don't answer that. I don't condone or support some of his ways of approaching things whether it's on our behalf or somebody else's but once I'm able to wade through what I consider some of his crap, I've found he does have more than a clue to what works and sounds good. Do you really need that much " evidence" before you do or try something? Are you so suspicious that you only allow accepted facts to dictate what is safe to do or try? Sean, I would really like to imagine not but there's that perception. As a very intelligent man I believe you to be, I can imagine you were a smart kid too. Maybe even a smart baby. Did you refuse your Gerber's until it was dissected and analyzed. I bet not. And look...here you are still alive and kicking!

Sean wrote:

As far as other manufacturers "jumping in", i wouldn't hold your breath. The mass majority of other cable manufacturers ( there are a FEW exceptions here ) are afraid to "lay it on the line". That's because they can't explain / don't understand what it is that they are trying to sell us.

Really Sean. What a small world you must live in. C'mon! That certainly could be (and probably is) one reason why some of the mass majority of Mfg'rs don't "jump in" but it's not THE reason as you make it sound! Other reasons could be for the likes of you...LOL!, time, or perhaps they don't feel the need to explain what they do because their product has proven itself to be good. Maybe they feel that to subject themselves to what they consider unreasonable is a waste of time. There could be all kinds of reasons that you or anyone else, not being all-knowing, Omni-present or Omnipotent, don't know anything about.

You imply that the mass majority of Mfg'rs don't understand anything about what they're trying to sell us. I've never seen a successful business who didn't understand nothing! Even if some Mfg'rs can't explain / don't understand everything about what they offer but it certainly serves peoples needs or wants, should they pack up their ball and go home? I have a close friend who used to be in the utility industry. He told me once that it was really amazing to him how clueless too many important people (including himself) were about how or why certain aspects of our utilities work. I got right on the phone and called my utility company and told them to shut me down. Gas and electric! I didn't want their service until they knew exactly and perfectly everything they were doing. NOT!

Sean wrote:

They build cabling, have cabling built to their spec or simply use off the shelf parts and hide the internals. They do most of this based on what they think will get the job done, be cosmetically desirable while returning a handsome profit on their time and money invested. That's primarily because marketing hyperbole is all that is expected out of them.

You make that sound like that's evil without exception! Are you a liberal....LOL! That's a viable approach. It's not one we ascribe to or how we do our cabling but some companies do and they have happy customers! Are those customers stupid?

"That's primarily because marketing hyperbole is all that is expected out of them." So what? You make it sound like people get possessed when they see marketing hyperbole. Maybe some people do, I don't know...LOL! I bet you approve of marketing, just not the hyperbole. Me too. Understand though that not all marketing is hyperbole. Regardless, I think most people are aware of at least some of the hyperbole. It gets their attention (which is hyperbole's, wrong or right/ethical or not, main purpose) and sometimes, by exercising their freedom, they Choose a given product for whatever other meritable reasons...not always because of the hyperbole and sometimes what you may consider hyperbole isn't. Personally, I try to take personal accountability for what I hear or read and I find a lot of marketing offensive to my intelligence and emotions. Nevertheless, there are times I get past all that and find a useful product that makes a positive difference for me. Is that wrong?

Sean wrote:

When it comes down to it, most speaker cables being made today lack the design integrity to do the job "right" (ed.). So rather than open their mouths and prove this point, the manufacturers remain silent and hope that their name isn't mentioned in a thread like this.

If people stop for a moment and think, I'll bet most consider life (cables included) richer for what is good and if my experience tells me anything, if it's only about what I think is or should be "right", everything is pretty shallow. "Right" is not always good and good doesn't always look right. For what it's worth, even Jesus new that.
(Hey look...I only used 63 words here! I'm getting better! ...and only 275 characters and 62 spaces! (if you go back and count this, you're sicker than I am.))

Sean wrote:

My comments about the thread being interrupted were not geared towards your customers "coming to your rescue", but more-so as a general comment pertaining to a specific group of Audiogon regulars that dislike my "brutish" methods of communications

Then start a new thread and address those AudiogoN regulars. LOL!

Sean wrote:

As far as being a "watchdog", i call 'em as i see 'em. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, has webbed feet, etc... it's probably a duck. Just because i'm not shy about pointing the duck out to others and telling them what it is and how to identify it by its' characteristics, it doesn't make me a "watchdog". Having said that, if what i post helps someone to avoid making costly errors or explains why certain situations ( sonic or otherwise ) have arisen surrounding "duck-like" products, so be it.

Not sure your idea of a duck is really a duck unless you mean it literally...web feet and all. As for myself, if I had web feet, my cowboy boots and hi-top Blk/Wht Chucky T's wouldn't fit. Here's my idea of a watchdog. If it guards, barks, attacks and bites what it thinks is foreign, it's probably a watchdog.

Sean wrote:

i have NO idea of what your cables are like. I have third party information on them that is far less than technical in nature and that's all. Neither your website nor your posts here have given me or "anyone else" (ed.) anything to go on.

Again, this seems to be more fantasy than reality. You mean to tell me our almost 185 projects this year were from folks who had nothing to go on? They just called here and said "Look, I don't know why I'm calling but I've just saved up a $135,000.00 and I guess I would like to buy some cables. I'll take yours and...don't even try to give me some reasons or info about your cables. If you do, I'll just take my business elsewhere!" Dam Sean, that would be the life right there! Hell, it would probably even be okay if I didn't even send this person any cables after payment. I mean what difference would it make?

Just because how I answer peoples questions and how I service folks doesn't fit within your frame, that doesn't constitute "anyone" (everyone) else! New Math?...you are a liberal aren't you...LOL! Look, I don't pretend to be everything to everybody and I understand that if one of us were a woman, we'd probably never be husband and wife. I'm okay with that but to say that no one would be my wife (so to speak), guess what...I have a wife! and we have a few customers who believe in what we're doing.

Sean wrote:

While it's quite possible i may be a great fan of your products once i had the chance to really get to know them ( technically and sonically ), the only way that i could do that would be to buy them, use them, dissect them and analyze them for myself. Given that i'm not buying any more cabling from someone that won't tell me what it is that they are selling ( i've been ripped off enough as it is ) and i'm not about to "gut" someone else's property that might be kind enough to let me borrow them, the chances of that happening are slim to none.

Surely that's the only valid way to approach whether an audio product is any good and it's what I do too: Listen to it (lets say I really like it better than what I've used before and other folks have used the product with good success for years) and then measure it, rip it apart and analyze what's in it. I find I don't like the numbers and traces on the scope and I have a real thing against the air pollution it caused to make the synthetic insulators used. This thing's a piece of..."I've been ripped off!" proclaims I. Again...NOT.

If you feel one way or another you've been ripped off, I'm sorry for your loss. Most small Mfg'rs like myself minimize the risk of ones investment by offering at least a 30 day money back guarantee. Some, like Chris at VH Audio offer 60 days I think. So where's the rip off? If one returns the cables they bought to who ever, they're out some time and probably some shipping cost. The education there is worth more than that.

Sean wrote:

The bottom line is that more info specifically about the products themselves with less background about the company could result in more potential sales.

Yep...it "could". (down to three words)

Sean wrote:

Robert: How much simpler would it have been if you had just said "Purity is measured by what percentage of impurities there are in the conductor. "Q" as i call it has to do with what type of impurities are involved. Not all impurities effect the performance of a cable in the same fashion. This is something that we pay attention to while other manufacturers seem to overlook this aspect of production"........This would have been a lot simpler, would have explained the point that you were trying to make while not giving any "proprietary secrets" away and would have actually made you look relatively intelligent with a short and educational response. Instead, you write another novel

Now come on Sean. You accuse me of writing a novel. I said what you said above here with less words! What I said was:

Purity has to do with the level of impurities. We all know that I think. Q has to do with levels of types of impurities.

What I wrote ahead of it was no more (or less) a novel than when you post most of the time. So why the dig? No matter. No harm here. I got a good chuckle.

Sean wrote:

Is there any other business where you can call up / email / go to and ask them for technical assistance or spec's concerning their products and they tell you about the owner's background, the company, the goals of the company, etc... everything BUT what you asked for?

When did you call here or is this another fantasy? The reality is when folks call here they are armed with enough info to make an informed decision on whether to give us a try or not. I'm guessing if, in reality mind you, you did call you might not feel the same way. I would be sorry but that's how it goes sometimes for both of us. Wished it were never so but... I can think of two times specifically when someone called and while they didn't specifically say it, I got a real sense that I didn't answer their questions they the wanted or needed me to. I bet if those two people are reading this, they know who they are...Hi. Sorry I wasn't able to be more helpful.

Like I said, I wished I could but I can't be everything to everybody but I think I am pretty good at being at least a little more than enough for a lot of people. (Rescuers solicited...)

Now, after all this Sean, I'm not trying to make you a wrong bad guy about everything or get you to change, just expand. Not that it may matter to you but I think you obsessively ROCK! I kind of like it and I appreciate you. Like my wife says I remind her of, you remind me of Billy Joel's "I Don't Know Why I Go To Extremes". That's a compliment. I "know" that song not by heart but in heart. Weird maybe and I don't get it but I almost feel like crying right now. Maybe we're comrades on oppisite sides of a fence. If so, maybe that's sad.

Well look at me. What a way to spend a Sunday. Maybe I'm obsessive.

Your Friend,
Robert