Oz, neutral is neutral.
Good, Neutral, Reasonably Priced Cables?
After wading through mountains of claims, technical jargon etc. I'm hoping to hear from some folks who have had experience with good, neutral, reasonably priced cables. I have to recable my entire system after switching from Naim and want to get it right without going nuts! Here is what I'm looking for and the gear that I have:
Looking for something reasonably priced-i.e. used IC's around $100-150. Used speaker cable around $300-400 for 10ft pair.
Not looking for tone controls. I don't want to try to balance colorations in my system. I'd like cables that add/substract as little from the signal as possible.
Looking for something easily obtainable on the used market i.e. that I can find the whole set up I need without waiting for months and months. I guess this would limit you to some of the more popular brands. Without trying to lead you, here are some I've been considering:
Kimber Hero/Silver Streak
Analysis Plus Copper Oval/Oval 9
Cardas Twinlink/Neutral Reference (Pricey)
Wireworld Polaris/Equinox
Here is my gear:
VPI Scout/JMW9/ATML170
Audio Research SP16
Audio Research 100.2
Rotel RCD 971
Harbeth Compact 7
I would really appreciate your help on this. Thanks, as always.
Looking for something reasonably priced-i.e. used IC's around $100-150. Used speaker cable around $300-400 for 10ft pair.
Not looking for tone controls. I don't want to try to balance colorations in my system. I'd like cables that add/substract as little from the signal as possible.
Looking for something easily obtainable on the used market i.e. that I can find the whole set up I need without waiting for months and months. I guess this would limit you to some of the more popular brands. Without trying to lead you, here are some I've been considering:
Kimber Hero/Silver Streak
Analysis Plus Copper Oval/Oval 9
Cardas Twinlink/Neutral Reference (Pricey)
Wireworld Polaris/Equinox
Here is my gear:
VPI Scout/JMW9/ATML170
Audio Research SP16
Audio Research 100.2
Rotel RCD 971
Harbeth Compact 7
I would really appreciate your help on this. Thanks, as always.
Showing 20 responses by psychicanimal
Oz, you're starting to sound like Sean! I have changed...I've learned at the very last minute that my system must revolve around the cables, not the other way around. Robert Schult of Ridge Street Audio was the person that got me thinking like that. Dodge, you're setting yourself up for a trip to Hi Fi hell... *** |
Sean: it is not *my* theory--and I offered to send you my cables. The offer still stands, since I'm moving and won't be setting up my stereo for who knows how long. You REALLY need to experience these cables. It will be a paradigm shift. I have two (1m) sets of MSE Gen I & three of Gen II, two (30 inch) sets , one (1m) set. Again, I hold strongly that cables go first. If I would have known what I know now, my system would have been simpler and with even better cables. The current mini monitor/stereo subwoofers/electronic x-over system takes up quite a bit of space. I should have had a Rowland Concentra integrated with a standalone, modded belt drive CD player + Creature on Steroids and a couple decent three way monitor speakers with Poiema cabling throughout. It's too late for that now. I'll have to stay complex. Deano says, "Never pass up an audition.". *** |
Mikesinger: there are cables under $500 that are neutral and will outperform Audience: Ridge Street Audio and VenHaus DIY silver (they both are cotton insulated). Here's a testimonial of someone who has AU24 and built the VenHaus: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=108426#108426 *** |
Sean, I agree with Springbok's stance. I can understand why Robert is so *protective* of his ways. He's about to turn 60 anytime soon and the idea of going back to his former sales job terrifies him. His plan is to collect Social Security and make cables. He publicly accused me of betraying his trust when all I did was post some info that was readily gathered from the Pure Note website (and I told him months before I was going to do it!). Pure Note would love to know what the hell he's doing, as their later products are oviously patterned after Ridge Street cables. I know that was the caffeine and nicotine speaking, so I gave him one of my prescriptions in good faith. I agree with you that Robert could have been concise, to the point and given enough technical information to satisfy others. Psychic: I'm glad that you guys had an enjoyable and educational get together. These types of situations can be fun, but they can also be misleading. That is, unless certain precautions are taken to try and keep the playing field level. I'm NOT talking about DBT's ( Double Blind Listening Test's ) or anything like that, just similar conditions in terms of all of the gear being allowed to thermally and physically stabilize. This takes time though and most impromptu meetings / listening sessions don't really allow this. Lak and I have found that once our systems had similar power delivery/noise control setups what we heard with different stuff was pretty similar. His is a 5W SET, all tube, single driver system and mine a mini monitor based SS system. Lak also found similar results in his living room solid state system. Yes, there are differences, but not big enough to discard our findings. People here know this and also know our personalities and tastes are very different, giving added weight to what we post. This gives them a pretty good idea of what to expect. When some time passed after Chris sent me his Pulsar digital cable for evaluation and I talked to him about how it sounded in my 100% solid state system I used pretty specific wording. He said I was using reviewer's words and that what I described was "exactly" how the Pulsar sounds. Chris is into tubes, as you know. How could I describe the same sound? Chris was confident because my power delivery/noise control rig is right on, I have a good ear (which he deducted from talking with me about different pieces of gear & my postings) and because I was specific in having *you* thoroughly cook the cable before listening to it. What is more, Nightdoggy (the power amp guru of Audiogon, as I call him) e-mailed me this weekend that he's ready to start his vintage equipment restoration/re-engineering business. He's an EE and has a professional lab, complete w/PCB washer. I'm going to send him my vintage Yamaha A-1 dual mono integrated (it has C-core transformers, FYI). Tom's going to turn that integrated into a mean beast! I plan to use the A-1 in my system for quite a while, since I don't know where in Florida I'll end up living or when I'll finally have a 'stable' job. The A-1 will allow me to have a compact, combined audio/ 2ch HT system. I bet the system will be good enough that my findings on audio gear will stay consistent. Maybe Chris will send me a couple pairs of his upcoming cotton insulated silver ICs and Robert two pairs of Poiemas. That would be interesting... Sean, the people I owe being sligshot into where I am are you, Deano, Nightdoggy and on the commercial end Danny Boy, Kevin Barrett and Robert Schult. I hold the same esteem for all of you. As a side note, RX8man also *experienced* the magic of Moca wood. I placed a board under the outboard power supply of his Audio Logic DAC. The man was just sitting there wondering what the F happened! Now it's you, Jahaira, Lak and RX8man. I might have to order a tree felled and cut into boards. They're scarce, as the tree must have a trunk of at least 3 feet in diameter in order to have any useful amount of heartwood. Albert, I checked and its a 20 hr drive. I might have to dump that Barrilito rum in the fuel tank of my car to boost the octane rating! *** |
What a sensory overload! For a moment I thought I was reading Miguel de Cervantes, English version! Sean, it's time to put your house as collateral and have your amazing power cord design extruded and marketed. You should have no problems selling it. Send one pair to me and one pair to Lak. We'll gladly review them (I like Rhodium in my power plugs/terminals). The way you describe power supply is similar to what I've done externally in my power delivery/noise control setup. Bueno. I think that the other (and more elegant) approach would be the way Albert Porter does his sound. *** |
Now is the time for Robert Schult to step in... Clear your head of that caffeine/nicotine overdose and show them what *you* have, Robert. Since my two week fasting my mind is very clear and I've been giving psychic healing prescriptions. I have one for you, too! Bupleurum Liver Cleanser by Planetary Formulas--follow the label instructions. This is a five day modified fast: distilled water with lemon juice, watermelon (in season!) and chamomille tea before bedtime. No cigarrettes, no coffee. Sleep with a small white quartz on a necklace and recite these words before going to bed: Porque yo...soy la fama It will get worse before it gets better. Call me if you need help. *** |
Honestly though, it mifs me a bit that you seem to talk almost ex-cathedra about those cables when you have no knowledge or experience about our speaker cables...the Ridge Street's are better (but of course and says I). I've offered Sean to lend him all five sets of Ridge Street Cables I have, now that I'm moving to Florida. He can keep them for a month or so...and perform all measurements, tests, etc. After all, he reads for me, cause I don't know how to read! He could even write a review alongside Lak's. Robert, if you don't come up w/ some quantifiable info *pronto* Sean might confuse you w/ Robert the Lone-note. That's not good. It's actually very bad, bordering on the awful... *** |
This afternoon RX8man came over to meet me and bring some of his goodies. We listened to his Audio Logic DAC, some pretty expensive Shunyata snakes (had about six!), modded B&K monoblocks and Cardas Hexlink 5C interconnects (two pairs). We compared them to my MSE Gen II's and it wasn't funny. My 20 yr old neighbor came over and he was nodding his head. The MSE is superior in all respects--and by no small margin. We listened to a Liuba Maria Hevia recording--solo singer and grand piano. This was recorded in Cuba in one of their state of the art all tube studios. It was like there were two entirely different audio systems. RX8man *experienced* the ultra low noise floor & beef of a 220V isolation transformer based system and cotton insulated silver cables. My psychic prediction is that Rx8man will be contacting Robert and Sean soon. Treat him well, guys... *** |
Albert, you said "No posting from me for a while". I was hoping you'd aleady be in Sweden taking some of the *special* pictures I requested. Remember, not everything is audio... I was already thinking about buying you a bottle of Barrilito "cuatro estrellas", pretty gourmet stuff! With psychic power and primal intensity, |
Well Sean, are you going to borrow the cables or not? Five sets and a whole month should be plenty for doing your analysis (dont' cut them open). There's nothing wrong nor it means any loss of face by actually liking them. You could even drive to Robert's place and have a beer with him! If he invites me I'll drive to LaPorte this weekend before moving to Florida...I would like to hear his new demo room. I think the cables will be a paradigm shift. Robert, I have never made any claims of being mentally sane. It's not mentally sane to have mini-monitors with 4 inch woofers play at loud volume *hardcore* salsa recordings of full blown, 20+ musicians' orchestras. Yet, somehow it is possible. RX8man had a paradigm shift when he witnessed the Fania All Stars playing in my living room. It's not supposed to be possible... Good, wholesome foods have crap in them. After chewing, digestion starts and the crap comes out the other end! With psychic power and primal intensity, |
I have news for you, Flex! Academic research is focused at war technology and making money, not truth. I graduated from one of those *famous* universities that have vines growing on their building walls outside and have self appointed themselves as a "league". The National Semiconductor Facility is there--cofunded by the governement and private industry. The list goes on and on...it's just a big facade. |