Goldmund Pabst motor

Hi Mark;

Unless I'm mistaken, I think you probably mean Papst motors, rather than Pabst?

If so, I am more than a little puzzled as to why you have come to think of these as being 'horrible motors', as some of the finest LP spining gear ever manfactured uses these beasts to rotate their platters!

For example, the famous Voyd turntable used three of these motors (though I'm not sure whether they were AC or DC) set in a triangular pattern around the inner platter (a depiction of which, incidentally, was the emblem of the company). This deck's sibling, the Valdi, again used two motors (one set at the centre front, and the other centre rear). In each case, these motors were driven by carefully designed power supplies which ensured that the power delivered was smooth and consistent. Indeed, in the case of Voyd reference, the power supply was so substantial as to be often mistaken for a high end power amplifier! One final upgrade for the reference, as I recall, was the fitting of a bracket to each its motors, to reduce its already low vibration, even further.

I think I'm also correct in saying that none other than the Pink Triangle Anniversary used a (DC) version of this motor as well, where it had been chosen precisely because of its superb quality and quietness in operation. Indeed it was considered so quite, that it was mounted directly onto subchassis, which suggests PT had, at the very least, enormous confidence that it would not interfere with the delicate process of extracting information from an LP. It is certainly true that a DC motor was used in the ultimate Anniversary, whose motor was battery driven.

Finally, as far as decks they are used in, I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that Michell use motors from this manufacturer to drive their Gyrodecks and Orbs, though these are housed in milled aluminium blocks.

As an aside, the Papst factory is located in Andover (Hants), and supplies many industries with high quality, powerful, low vibration motors.

I hope I have understood you correctly, and what I have said helps.

Mark

Thanks Mark.

The motor I'm referring to is a Papst (you a correct in spelling, I was wrong) DIRECT drive motor, not a DC synchronous used by a lot of people in industry. And while this motor is quiet, it does what every direct drive motor manufacturer is trying to eleiminate - has very heavy cogging, or jerking motion. It is due to the fact that it only uses four coils for movement, while even the cheapest Technics direct drive implements something on the order of ten, which makes it a lot smoother. With a heavy Goldmund platter, it has very low torque and audible stylus drag. That is why lovingly I call it "horrible", while looking for a spare to keep my Goldmund original. I still can not find any info on who else used this exact motor, but I know somebody did. As to power supplies, Goldmund's were as lousy as they come, comparable available from any electronics suppliers (like Mouser) for about US $30! Their "Superalim" power supplies that came with a $6000 studio (!) are often found melted (while still working), larger power supplies suffer from bad electrolytics (like mine did), and the whole table looks like it's been built in a local garage. However I can not deny the fact that it sounds great and that is why I'm looking for spares, as it is most likely the last table I will have. If only I could fix the arm soon... Cheers, Mark

Hi Mark;

I sincerely apologise for my ignornace regarding the specifics of the drive motor of your particular Goldmund. Of course, I have heard Goldmunds (mainly at shows), but never having been near one for any length of time, or having studied their specifications in detail, I was not aware that some used a four pole motor fed from poor quality electronics.

Cogging and programme wow (design errors?) do not sound like the kind of performance problems normally associated with high mass designs, at least not more recent ones, which seem to have all but banished this performance bogie. I guess this is the price one pays for evolution, turntable style.

Re obtaining a spare motor, dare I ask if you have attempted to contact Papst? I'm sure there must be someone there who will recognise the spec, if not the part number of the offending item, and hence could put you on the trail of a new motor?

In any event, good luck in your quest.

Regards

Mark

p.s. Out of interest, how do you rate the sound of CD next to the Goldmund? My recollection, which I have admit is from 5 or 6 years ago, was that the Goldmund fairly floored the five figure CD it was put up against!

Please try Papst by all means but I doubt you'll find any more success than I have over the years. They seem to be unable to associate any motor with an application without a motor number and/or part number. Do you have those?

I have numbers. I also was able thru some very creative buying and selling obtain a spare motor in like new condition, so I'm OK for a long time. Thanks to all for help. Mark

Dr. Mr. Bendig, no need to aplogize! Goldmund's power supplies are of poor quality, on par with anything available from Mouser Electronics, let's say for $30 US. I speak from experience. The whole thing with searching for another motor started because my motor was making a lot of noise while starting and a bit less noise when turning. I figured that motor was going, found another motor, paid a lot for it and then decided to troubleshoot the power supply. I found a lot of AC garbage on 24 V DC line. I replaced electrolytics in it (from Radio Shack, $5 total cost, three capacitors) and the noise has completely dissappeared and motor has a lot more torque on start too.
Stylus drag on Goldmund is mentioned also in VPI's article on what they tried to improve on in their TNT tri-pulley system.
My CD player is not the best but pleasing (CAL Tempest II tube unit), I had no chance to compare to expensive ones. In my system Studio/T3 combo sounds (rather, sounded, becuase the arm needs work now) better than any other table I've heard to date in my house and I've heard quite a few: Pink Triangles (many versions), Oracles (many, including Premier), Linn, Mitchell Orbe, EMT, Technics SP-10 Mk II, Voyd etc. I'm using ET-2 arm on it while mine is being worked on and it is not the same. It is a clean and accurate arm, but compare to T3 it does not work with the table sinergistically in the same way as T3 does. The amount of energy that T3 produces is staggering, earthquake bass, and yet sweet. My Studio is an early one with a wooden base and as such has a lot more colorations (or midrange?) than later metacrylate ones. In a way, it is similar to Linn in it's voicing, but better in every respect. Right cartridge is a must, I'm using a Cello variant of Miabi, and it works very well.
I still say (and a lot of people will disagree) but in my home at least the best sound I get is from TV (sacriledge!) (cable) on good broadcast, especially live ones.

Sorry for blabbering. Thanks for help.

To all who are interested: I found some more info on that Papst motor, thanks to a very helpful european member: Same motor (with minor changes) as used in a Dual 704. Later improved version used in a Dual 701/721.