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FR66s vs Ikeda IT-407 CR tonearms

Has anyone compared the FR66s to the newer Ikeda IT-407 CR1 tonearm? Any thoughts? In previous years, the Ikeda was available with either copper or silver internal wiring but the recent models don't mention anything about the tonearm wiring. Can anyone comment what type of wiring is used in the latest editions? It would seem intuitive that the later Ikeda IT407 should be a better performer than the FR66s having improved material and bearings over the FR66s but the proof is in the hearing.
ddriveman
sampsa55
73 posts
 
What are the 345 & 407 made from? The construction overall looks closer to FR64fx & FR66fx than to FR64s & FR66s.

This review says 345 & 407 are made from stainless steel:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-128

This review says they're made from "a combination of aluminum, zinc-bronze, stainless steel and brass":
https://www.dagogo.com/ikeda-sound-labs-it-407cr1-long-tonearm-review/

The anti-skate provision by 345 is an enigma.

It looks identical to the one in FR64fx & FR66fx.

I use the term "new" Ikeda because Mr Ikeda is clearly no longer with the current Ikeda which is making the new Ikeda tonearms and offering service for FR arms.

It’s the same company that Osamu Ikeda founded after Fidelity Research went bust in the 1980s, but I think he himself retired recently and there is a new owner.

He is here said to have been 35 when he started Fidelity Research in 1964. That would make him ~89 this year.
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/30-turntables/165-eat-forte-turntable.html?start=2

He is here interviewed in 2009 saying he is 83 and was still building tonearms and cartridges, like he had been doing for 60 years. That would make him ~92 this year.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/high-end-audio-in-japan-part-five-analog-from-ikeda-sound-lab/ 

He is here in 2012 said to have retired and IT Industries is now managing the company:
https://www.dagogo.com/ikeda-sound-labs-it-407cr1-long-tonearm-review/

nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

@sampsa55 , What an revelation in time of fake news and

propaganda. The facts and only the facts. Facts are true

statements. But I have some addition. As I mentioned in

my post in the context of the German Magazine production

from (hardened) steel become to expensive so the next

series FX is made from aluminum . According to my ''devaluation

theory'' it would make no sense to use steel after FX.

J. Carr explanation was that meanwhile Ikeda understood

resonance problems better and used an, say, mix of different

metals for  345 & 407 as solution. From my ''theory'' it follows

that each next model should be cheaper (made) in order to keep

the business profitable. A kind of ''opposite proof'' is the price

of the new B-60 (grin).

Now the ''curious'' anti-skate provision by 345&407. This is

not even similar with FX kind. The forgotten ''child'' the 245

however has similar to FX anti-skate provision.

Samsa deed not mention any kind of silver. According to

our beloved ddriverman  ''new Ikeda silver'' was better then ''old''

(aka original). But the most of us have at least heard of Kondo

san. According to him the ''matured silver'' (20 years?) was

the best and preferably from Italy. I thought about analogy

with French wine but the Italian is also very good.

sampsa55
73 posts
 

Regarding the material, the Ikeda Labs website is particularly uninformative, only saying "Hybridization of the material of the main part" (Google translation), which seems to indicate that it's not pure stainless steel or aluminum.

http://www.islabs.co.jp/it345cr1.html


Now the ''curious'' anti-skate provision by 345&407. This is

not even similar with FX kind. The forgotten ''child'' the 245

however has similar to FX anti-skate provision.


I have an FR64fx and an FR64s, but have not compared directly with 345 & 407. However, from every picture I can find, the anti-skate in 345 & 407 looks very similar to the FR64fx. Here are pictures of 245 and the anti-skate looks quite different:
http://www.hifido.co.jp/sold/?KW=&G=0302&LNG=E&O=1500&L=50&C=07-30498-90074-00

I can't think of what aging or maturing would do to silver and why it would sound better. There has been improvement in casting, at least for copper, since the introduction of FR64s, so it might well be that current silver is better made. 


ddriveman OP
171 posts
 
Dear nandric,

I have the original FR silver wire that dertonarm removed from my FR66s. The construction looks much poorer (thinnner, pvc type insulation) compared to the Ikeda Silver. Plus it looks heavily oxidized. I did a side by side listening comparison, on same TT with same cart. Dertonarm himself said that the new Ikeda wire should sound better. Thuchan also agrees after he rewired his FR66s. You just seem to have great trouble believing that rewiring with Ikeda Silver wire has any benefits. That's totally fine. Please stick with your matured and aged wires. But allow me to post my findings freely to others who have FR64 and FR66 arms so that they may choose to also try themselves.

Your "beloved" ddriveman
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dear both , my beloved ddriverman and Sampsa 55.

First the ''curious'' anti-skate by 345. The picture included

by Sampsa is the version 245 for which I stated to have

similar anti-skate with FX kinds.  To prove my statement

wrong the picture of 345 or 407 would be needed.

Dear ddriverman, I have no idea about ''new Ikeda silver wire''

because I still use the ''old one''. The PR used by Kondo san

to promote his ''matured silver'' can not be ascribed to me.

I only mentioned two , say, opposite opinions about ''silver

kinds''. BTW there are persons who swear by Audio Note

cables , phono-cables included and If I remember well

Dertonarm offered both for his rewire. I like disputes; this

seems to be ''natural'' by my profession (grin).

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