Having just gone through this exercise with a family member, here is my advice. Since you didn't mention anything about a screen, I will assume you have that under control.
1. I would buy a used HT receiver. So much more machine for the money. Don't worry about HDMI capability for the receiver in a starter system - go for current and wattage. Pick it up, if it weighs a lot, buy it. Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha all make decent HT receivers. Some Sonys sound OK too.
2. I would look for a source known for having decent redbook CD playback, get a used Denon 29XX model or higher DVD player, a used NAD or Cambridge Audio DVD player. Or, get a new Oppo DV 980H (a whopping $169 NEW). If you are getting a screen bigger than 40", you will want to get a HDMI capable player (like the Oppo) to appreciate full 1080p HD picture on up-converted DVDs. Stay away from Blueray players for now as the cost to sound quality ratio is currently way out of whack.
3. Get used speakers too if possible. I would go for full range front speakers, either high quality budget monitors with a sub or decent budget floor standers depending on your available space. One consideration, the monitor sub combo is more versatile for listening to stuff blow up in HT mode.
Get a used or new center speaker that is a decent sonic match for the two front speakers. I would not bother to go for 7.1 sound at this point, so try to find rear speakers that are a good match for the rest - but focus on getting the front pair right if music is your first love, and build the rest of your system around that. There are always a lot of B&W speakers available used online, so you could mix and match used and new models as available and within budget without going wrong. KEF makes good audio and HT speakers. Monitor Audio and Era Design are two other manufacturers that come to mind as well, and some people rave about Definitive Technology speakers for HT and Music, they sound OK but I don't like the way they look.
Finally, Aperion Audio makes a good sub for not too much maoney as well (http://www.aperionaudio.com/home.aspx).
Good luck. |
Jrwr7's got a great bundle of gear put together there. Von Schweikert speakers are very high quality, and Rotel makes decent sounding and well built electronics. For less than the twenty two hundred bucks, you could probably get a great used one piece receiver that I would guess is hard to distinguish in terms of 2 channel sound quality unless you were getting an $800 to $1.5K source to go with it. The Rotels would provide plenty of room to improve in this area.
So lets talk about the source for a minute - Jrwr7, what would you recommend as a disk spinner to go with this gear? Oppo? Toshiba? other? The Rotel - Von Schweikert combo would be getting close to or going way beyond exposing weaknesses in 2 channel sound reproduction from budget DVD players. Even the hearlded Oppo. Not sure whether Bluvision already has a source, or needs to get one. The screen name would indicate they are already in the Bluray camp, and may be looking for a dedicated CD player to round out the system. If they only need CD playback, a used NAD or Cambridge Audio stand alone redbook player would be a good choice for a few hundred bucks. A used Rega would be an even better source, but also blow the budget. Not a lot of head room in the Rotel-VS system described above, even if aggressive haggling is employed. But a lot of room to grow with cables and improved sources down the line. Great ideas. |
I would go for a 38XX or 58XX Denon receiver if going for used all in one box. These will do much better with 2 channel than 28XX due to greater power/current.
Given that Bluvision has a 46" Samsung, I would guess they want something that upscales DVD to 1080p effectively. Old Denon DVD players wont do that. If using computer for music source, then I would go for Oppo 981HD - 1080p up-converting with Faroudja video processor for $229. Another option is a Toshiba HD DVD player which are available at fire sale prices and do a great job at up-converting as well. |
1. The Aperion speakers are nice for what they are, but not even close to the same league as the Von Schweikert and B&W speakers you mention - so I would say go with the VS or BWs. Depends on your preference - my guess is that the VS will be smoother across frequency range, and BWs will be a bit more forward and revealing. You will need some clean power to run either one (see below).
2. HSU or Aperion Subs are fine. HSU is probably better. Cambridge Soundworks, not so sure. If you had any extra funds, this might be a good place to spring for a used REL sub, which would be more musical for 2 channel work than any of these picks.
3. A new Denon 2808ci receiver is not the greatest value when you can get a used 5803 online for the same price. These really don't wear out. I believe a 5803 has a Toroidal Power Transformer and assignable outputs so you could bi amp the Von Schweikert or B&W front speakers, which could yield big sonic benefits. Both of those speaker systems are good enough that you would appreciate the greater power and resolution provided by the higher quality audio circuits and power management of the 5803 compared to the 2808ci. Digital out from your computer should sound terrific through a beast like this.
4. For HT purposes the Oppo is fine. A new Denon 2930 is $850 and and an older 29XX wont up-convert video to 1080p, save your money here for the next generation Bluray players. I would run the HDMI out of the Oppo directly to your Samsung. I would run digital audio out (coax or optical) to a 5803 or similarly capable reciever/processor and let it handle the conversion chores in either multichannel or 2 channel modes. The DACs in the 5803 are better and set up in a more sophisticated arrangement compared to the Oppo's on-board stuff.
No Rotel needed in this setup - although the pair suggested earlier could be a legitimate alternative to a big Denon. |
SVS subs are great. My bro-in-law just got an SVS Ultra 13 and it dives very very deep. On the other hand, I don't think their monitors can keep up with the likes of Von Schweikert or B&W Nautilus speakers if those are real options here.
Yes, separates are good, probably a little better sounding in the end, but I really like the biggest Denons. For somebody just getting into this for the first time, they offer great sound and the simplicity of having everything in one (60+lb!) box. Look Ma! No interconnects!! The built in DACs are more than adequate, so you can get away with pretty much using the DVD as a transport, or another digital source like a computer and the receiver does the rest.
And, can you really get separates (even used) that will do as much, sound as good, and effectively drive the kind of speakers listed above the way one of these big old Denons will for only a little over $1K? The used cost of the better speakers and subs listed by Bluvision would only leave about $1500 total in the budget for the source, the processor/amp/receiver and all cables. Probably not enough for really decent used separates. But, perhaps I am beating a dead horse. |
Jrwr7,
Those are great speakers and probably pretty good Rotel electronics. But, there is no DVD player, sub or cables in the system you spec'd out.
Now many people might argue that if stereo is your first love, a sub is unnecessary. But my view is home theater is just not the same without the low frequency effects... A sub is a must for me, and a musical one can add to music listening experience too, especially if you like Hip Hop or Electronic Dance/Trance music.
Can't really watch movies without a source, so a DVD player is a definite must. Could get away with decent new $200+ rig, but that is still $200. I can't belive I am saying this cause I am usually a source first person, but Bluvision says they are going to mostly use their computer for music, video formats are in flux, and any of these electronics discussed have decent to very good built in DACs, so I would bottom fish for a new over achieving 1080P up-convertor.
Good cables cost some dough too, 5, 10, 15% of system costs typically.
I agree you can do better with separates, but not within this budget and still have the kind of full 5.1 system in discussion here with all parts assembled and ready to shake it up.
Not trying to be a fuddy duddy, but all this stuff adds up. I think a the big Denon has the chops to keep Bluvision happy for a while, but we can agree to disagree on that. I think we can both agree that no matter what, the 2808ci is not going to make Bluvision happy for long with the kind of speakers being floated now.
And speaking of speakers, I agree with BR that Revel speakers are great. There are several to choose from on Agon right now as well. Very different sound from B&Ws as I recall, much rounder but with great timbre. I am partial to the current Performa line and old M20's. |
Jrwr7,
Oops, I did miss the sub, my mistake. I did not see a source included in that first list and budget, but then I have been known to be a careless reader before...
Cables are what they are: mysterious, expensive, more expensive, and going on up to ridiculous. But they make a difference, and the more pieces you are linking together, the more cables you have to buy and the more fooling around you need to do to optimize performance. If you are using anything but hardware store wires, the costs can accelerate very quickly - even buying used.
For $4500 Bluvision can get a great sounding system. Agree with Jwer7 and others here that buying used gear, whether it is centered on a receiver or separates, will increase the quality and overall enjoyment of the initial investment.
One last thing to consider, HT electronics are more of a commodity than 2 channel gear and changes come fairly quickly in terms of shifting formats and features. As a result, values for new and used HT equipment both tend to drop more quickly than for high quality 2 channel stuff. Something to keep in mind as you enter the market. Happy shopping, watching and listening. |
