I agree that the only way to best determine whether a speaker will work for an individual, is for that individual to get the speaker in their own environment. Unfortunately, it's not very practical.
At this point, I'm trying to determine the general characteristics of a particular brand. To complicate things, I'm sure that model ranges within a brand may or may not sound different!
I guess the only way to really get a picture of what's out there is to put this endeavor to rest until I head out to the CES show. Although side-by-side and/or equipment matched comparisons will be nearly impossible, it will certainly help narrow the playing field.
I haven't given up on boxes completely, but the few I listened to recently sounded hollow for some reason. Cabinet resonances? Poor placement? Voicing? Driver selection? Who knows...... |
Fair questions, which I'll be happy to answer if it will help narrow things:
Room Size: Approximately 14 x 20 (shorter than I thought)
Amplifier: 250wpc solid state
Music: From Bach to Prong, mostly jazz
Size Res.: None within reason, floorstander preferred
Source: Currently CD, but vinyl as well in the future
Budget: I'd like to stay below $5K if possible
Now, about my prior VR-4's:
Likes: Excellent imaging and soundstaging, wide response, pretty darned good midrange, fairly good highs.
Dislikes: Excessive midbass warmth, slow presentation lacked pace and transient attack, loose bass, total lack of dynamics and punch, compression at higher levels.
The system may be moved to a much larger space, so I don't want to limit my choices based on the current room size. As I've said, I like a good detailed presentation with excellent soundstaging and imaging, but I'm dying for that fast paced, transient, dynamic, punchy, lively sound that doesn't change character as you raise the volume.
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I had the first generation VR-4's, so it's quite likely that Von Schweikert's new designs are quite different than mine, which was some 10 years old. Even the VR-4.5 was supposed to have been a marked improvement over the VR-4, and it came less than a year after the VR-4 was introduced. I believe the VR-4.5 went to 9" Eton woofers with cast frames, whereas the woofers in my VR-4's were 8" polypropylene with stamped metal frames. The cross-over point was also evidently changed to cure what was a common complaint, lack of mid-bass punch and dynamics, which slowed the overall presentation of the speaker and made the bass sound tubby because of a "hole" in the spectrum.
I liked the VR-4's enough to keep them for 10+ years, so believe me, they did a lot of things right. I was able to overcome many of the bass issues, but the system still lacked dynamics and impact. They were a very laidback speaker system, and I knew that going in, but I felt their other charasterics outweighed the lack of dynamics.
Eventually, I got bored of the lack of excitement the speakers generated, and found that I no longer listened to the system. That's primarly what prompted me to sell them and start the search.
I'm in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, and the selection here is terrible, so it's very, very unlikely I'll have the luxury of auditioning a speaker in my own home, let alone within 100 miles! |
Thanks again for putting up with my inquiries everyone!
Tvad - I'll look into home auditions, but you're right, it's not easy shipping 100+ lb. containers back and forth. Perhaps there are some local A'goner's that would accommodate.
Boa2 - Amp is a Parasound Halo A-21, pre-amp is a Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Hybrid, CD player is a Rotel RCD-965BX, and cables are Audioquest (don't recall the version).
David12 - Can the Adagio's play loudly in a large room with two 6.5" drivers?
Shadorne - Thanks for the "last piece of advice!" I will certainly check out Atlas. I listened to the PMC MB2 and IB2, and they are incredible systems, but both are well over $10K. Their sound is what I'm looking for in a speaker.
Honestl - I'll check out the Talon's, as I've read how fast and dynamic they are. They might be up my alley as well. I had Magnepan 1.6's, and they only lasted 30 days. They simply don't recreate the "live event" for most program material.
Wwwrecords - Indeed, I used to own the Altec Model 19's, and with all their idiosyncracies, they truly were magnificent speakers. Problem is, I don't have the space for another "washer/dryer." They fall outside of the "reasonable" part of my size limitations clause!
French-fries - I've heard the Eggleston speakers, and they're very similar to my VR-4's. Too "audiophile" for me. I think I owe it to myself to at least listen to the current VR-4jr and VR-4sr.
Thanks again for your tolerance everyone! |
Thanks everyone.......
Boa2 - You hit the nail on the head with your comment that box speakers "sound too sequestered with respect to conveying the sparkle and energy of the event." That's what I'm looking for, the sparkle and energy of the event. Nearly all of the conventional speakers I've ever listened to lack that sparkle and energy. Nearly all of them are reticent.
My VR-4's, for example, would reproduce the crack of a stick against the rim of a snare drum in a way that sounded like a pillow was in between the microphone and the drum. The representation was there, but that sparkle and engergy (CRACK!) was missing. A plucked bass hung out in space forever, so things sounded sloooow. Bass drums were rendered with a "poof" instead of a solid "punch," and drum solos lacked that crisp, leading edge attack. They sounded this way in the showroom, and in 3 different environments with varying amplification, so it was a character of the speaker itself.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I wonder if speaker designers are afraid to depart from that typical "audiophile" expectation of sound. That "warm" or "lush" presentation. Over the years, I've heard many, many speakers, that while voiced differently, had an overall laid back presentation. I don't mean to sound degrading, but my $30 PC speakers image like champs, so perhaps I'm trying to get "outside the box" (no pun intended).
I agree with your list of speakers that won't satisfy me. When I sold my VR-4's, I fell out of my chair when I saw just how many companies are now building conventional, multi-driver systems. How much can you really do with this design, aside from distinctive voicing?
I seem to gravitate towards two speaker designs, horn and planar. I loved my Logans and Magnepans, but they lacked punch and dynamics. I loved my Altec 19's, but they were far from being refined. I guess I'm looking for something that might not exist, so I'll have to take some time and determine just what compromises I'm willing to make. |
By the way, a couple things I will do:
1. I will audition the new Von Schweikert designs
2. I'd like to audition the Gallo Ref 3.1, just for curiosity sake, given the amount of good press and customer reviews they have received |
I'm very interested to hear more about the La Scalas. My only fear is that a "vintage" horn system (even though it's offered as a current model) might not provide sufficient detail, although I have read that the midrange in the La Scala is out-of-this-world....
They would certainly work in all but the largest spaces! |
Thanks.......I just came upon them accidently, while searching the net for dealers in the area......Never heard of them, but I'm going to swing by on Saturday..... |
