First Order Crossovers: Pros and Cons


I wonder if some folks might share their expertise on the question of crossover design. I'm coming around to the view that this is perhaps the most significant element of speaker design yet I really know very little about it and don't really understand the basic principles. Several of the speakers I have heard in my quest for full range floorstanders are "first order" designs. I have really enjoyed their sound but do not know if this is attributable primarily to the crossover design or to a combination of other factors as well. In addition, I have heard that, for example, because of the use of this crossover configuration on the Vandersteen 5 one has to sit at least 10 feet away from the speakers in order for the drivers to properly mesh. Is this really true and if so why? Another brand also in contention is the Fried Studio 7 which also uses a first order design. Same issue? Could someone share in laymans terms the basic principles of crossover design and indicate the advantages and disadvantages of each. Also, what designers are making intelligent choices in trying to work around the problems associated with crossover design? Thanks for your input.
128x128dodgealum
One of the major advantages of the first-order crossover, which isn't mentioned often enough, is the fundamental simplicity of the network. Every increase in crossover order is accompanied by a proportional increase in the number of network elements, and the audibility of this problem is severe. Even a single high-quality inductor or capacitor in the signal path is audibly degrading when compared to none at all, which is why so many people decide to live with the severe compromises present in single-driver speakers. It's hard to describe this effect until you play around with it-- my best description is that it "sucks the life out of the music". And the higher the slope, the worse this problem gets. Not very scientific, I agree, but the degree to which this is true is stunning when you hear it.

Also, I would take issue with the research quoted by Joseph. One of the basic facts about second-order crossovers is that they require at least one of the drivers to operate in inverted electrical phase, to avoid a null in frequency response at the crossover frequency. This inversion alone is enough to utterly destroy the integrity of the musical signal, and any comparisons to fourth-order crossovers at that point are completely meaningless. Since no one in their right mind would use second-order networks in the first place, it doesn't say much that fourth-order sounds better than second-order. This paper, like a lot of quoted research, might be true in its own limited environment, but it doesn't even begin to tell the whole story in the real world.

The main drawback to first-order networks, as stated above, is the need for very wide bandwidth and very high quality drivers, with no severe "breakup modes". Thankfully, these are available at a price from Scan Speak and Audio Technology, among others.

Disclaimer: I am the manufacturer of the Ultimate Monitor, a two-way speaker using first-order series crossovers and Scan Speak Revelator drivers.

Best,
Karl
Nice to see you here again, Karl. (Maybe you've been around and I just missed it.)
Hey Sean: this is my first posting ever, but I couldn't resist. If you're watching the midsection then stay away from the Italian beefs--they'll give you a first-order speed bump in no time flat.
Say hi to Chicago for me,
Charlie
I'm going to let everyone know when Bill finishes his own Ohms, and then you're all going to have to get into Philly so that we can all go over to HIS house for a bar b que. Believe me, it's going to be an absolute blast.

As Sean stated, Bill's favorite speakers are probably the Ohms. He has told me several times he considers the Ohms the finest speakers ever produced, once he implements his ideas into them. I spotted them once in his shop, and he just lit up. I asked, "But, they sure are hard to drive, aren't they?" His reply was, "No, when I get done with them, they are incredibly sensitive. They'll play like crazy with no power."

No, he hasn't tackled his own yet, as he dreads working on them due to the labor intensity. He just doesn't want to take time away helping you and I via his business. You must know the man in order to understand. When he does something, he does it better than anyone else has ever done, otherwise he just doesn't do it. Last summer, he painted his wife's car, at what he claimed to be twice what a quality body shop would charge. Why? Because it needs to be to his own standards or else he will drive himself crazy, and no one beyond him can meet those standards. If anyone ever wants to see how detail oriented he ever is, just ask him a couple of questions regarding automotive transmissions. You'll get an education the likes of which no one has ever gotten before.

I strongly believe Bill is the finest speaker guy in the country, if not the world. It's amazing who we hold in such high regard in this industry, while failing to recognize the true genius of the craft.
I haven't read this entire thread, but it's not clear that a particular speaker which is or claims to be time and phase coherent will have a simple crossover network with few parts, although that seems to be the case with Meadowlark and Green Mountain.

Vandersteen and Thiel have involved crossover assemblies, for example.

I think the only real problem associated with first order crossovers, meaning the one problem which can't be mitigated by engineering or setup quality, is the off axis lobing. This lobing will exist, but may or may not be bothersome to a particular person in a particular situation....

As for whether the recorded music itself has any time or phase coherence by the time it winds its way through the rest of the recording and playback chain...who knows? I just think Vandersteen 2Ce Sigs are still a great bargain.