First impressions of new MH-DA006, Musetec flagship

I'm not stating an overarching disparagement of usb, in many cases usb may outperform I2S, I keep on reiterating my experience with Singxer SU6 vs usb. I will continue to affirm what I believe to be inherent advantage of dedicated lines for data and clock, and no need to convert from usb to native I2S within dac. Does it seem reasonable to believe extracting data and clock streams from one cable is an advantage, same with detour through usb boards. With I2S one is simply supplying isolated and dedicated clock and data streams directly into native I2S path of dac.

 Now I agree the downside of I2S is the cable, however, I'm reasoning the superiority of the clock in Gaia over 006 clock supersedes or overrides the downside of clock being further away and having to travel through short cable to I2S stream inside dac. Superior sound quality I'm getting via I2S is provides evidence for this.

As for choices made by manufacturers in regard to interfaces, plenty of dacs provide I2S inputs including Rockna, Mola Mola Tambaqui, PS Audio, most of the Chifi, and some others I've seen listed on forum. More at issue here is the failure of streamer manufacturers to provide I2S outputs. With so few streamers offering this output easy to understand why dacs wouldn't provide for it. Now, as to why streamers don't offer it, here is how I see it. Virtually all off the shelf computer motherboards (which is what all streamers are) have usb capability on board. These boards were originally developed for general purpose, only in relatively recent years have they become optimized solely for audio. We also have follow the leader syndrome, usb became the de facto interface because it was no hassle   to integrate, integrating I2S requires more work, another signal path, clock and power supply. I also agree it can sound fine since so many years and so many manufacturers working on optimizing it. I've used many usb optimizing solutions over the years, each subsequent solution bettering the previous. If I hadn't purchased  Laiv Harmony with the specific intention of trying I2S with it I wouldn't have even bothered with I2S to 006.

As to doing away with a DDC altogether, I have option of installing Pink Faun I2S board in my custom build streamer, I'd power via my Uptone JS 2 choke based lps. In going this direction I'd completely eliminate my Sonore OpticalModule, OpticalRendu (no more optical network conversion and total elimination of usb, AQ Diamond usb cable, lps, AC cables, DC cables). Question becomes does less become more?

Finally, based on reviews of the world class streamers and dacs, I have no doubt the proprietary interfaces they use are superior to both usb and I2S. Still, the native signal path within dacs remains I2S so the ultimate solution is to provide a superior clock and power supply for that clock within the dac. As for the streamer I haven't researched these proprietary interfaces enough to know exactly what they do, however, it seems reasonable to believe they provide dedicated runs for clock and data, I can't imagine mixing up data and clock on a single cable is the optimal solution.

Almost forgot. Experiential evidence is an extremely valid form of evidence. For those disparaging I2S via DDC don't just assume or presume this is inferior interface, provide some real world experience via comparative analysis of optimized I2S vs whatever usb setup you're presently using. I'm simply reporting on what I hear in my setup, not trying to sell anyone on anything, I have no skin in this game.

@sns 

I completely agree regarding experiential evidence and I have no skin in the game either.

I do think it's important to clarify that experiential evidence is only valid for the specific use case involved. That includes power, cabling, room interactions, etc. While I2S or OCXO clocks may provide a perceived benefit over USB in a specific setup, changing a single part of that equation may invalidate the benefit. 

Regarding the "best" manufacturers not adopting I2S; the point is that if one format was inherently or demonstrably better than an other, the best of the best would have adopted it. Rather, some of them specifically state that I2S is a flawed format for digital audio transmission. 

@melm 

I have never seen anything equivocating SPDIF and I2S...I don't believe they're "closely related" at all...a primary/significant difference being that I2S is synchronous while SPDIF is asynchronous. Your observation regarding the Grimm MU-1 supports the point I'm making...the protocol itself, whether it's USB, I2S, SPDIF, etc. isn't the singular determining factor in audio quality. Assuming sound engineering and quality components, implementation is the overarching determiner of good sound.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

@catastrofe I agree my experience is only anecdotal evidence, but then there are many others who assert I2S superiority. Others claim usb superior.

Personally, I tend to put far more value on comparative reviews, and those comparisons should be fair. And so we often make equipment purchases based on other's reviews because we judged those opinions as factual or honest. Which brings us to our own subjective analysis of what we hear when inserting that equipment into our systems. I've long researched both usb and I2S interfaces, know all about the pluses and minuses,  I felt the need to come to my own conclusions, not rely on others. I've now heard both and have come to my own conclusions, whether someone wants to believe me is totally up to them.

By the way, meant to say empirical evidence rather than experiential. And since this is thread devoted to Musetec 006 my direct claim is full potential of 006 will not be unlocked using usb input or some other DDC of unknown or dubious quality (compared to Gaia). My contention is internal I2S clock is what's holding that performance back. I'll further make this statement conditional on running an optimized usb into the DDC such as I have. Making the presumption everything in chain is critical, running a less than optimal usb into this or any ddc will affect quality of it's output which will impact sound quality.

@catastrofe 

There is the music data and there is the clock signal. Together with a third they constitute what we know as the I2S streams.   A Raspberry Pi has I2S data available on its GPIO pins, allowing the connection of external audio codecs or DACs that support the I2S protocol   RPis are used in many streamers, including commercial ones, and RPis, or their functional equivalents, are used in virtually every streamer that has ethernet as an input.   For the streamer to output spdif there is a conversion of data on the three pins to an spdif or AES/EBU transmitter chip for the spdif or AES/EBU output.  Then within the DAC there is a spdif or AES/EBU receiver chip for conversion back to I2S.  The spdif or AES/EBU line carries exactly the same data on one line that was on three, except that it cannot carry as much so the max sampling rate is reduced.  You will notice that, almost always, a streamer having I2S output will also offer spdif and or AES/EBU outputs because they are so closely related.

The most important advantage of the I2S connection is to avoid the double conversion from I2S to spdif or AES/EBU inside the streamer and vice-versa inside the DAC.  And I2S is usually associated with lower jitter than spdif or AES/EBU.

It could be that I2S needs more care in its implimentation to sound consistently better than the others.  In my own system the I2S beats a spdif that I have tried and also a USB.  But I cannot say that all other things were equal in those comparisons.  Nevertheless an ethernet to I2S streamer is working very well for me.  As usual YMMV.