Finally stepping into the hobby after 30 years of watching from the sidelines

Hi Cottguy,
Haven't been on A'gon in a while but have read this whole thread with great interest.  Been in this hobby for about 30 years now and have read countless reviews of high end gear over the years and owned lots of gear too.  I sold audio gear at the retail level many moons ago and have been very lucky at putting together very musical systems for not a lot of money.  Its very easy to spend a lot on this hobby.  I always have taken pride in putting together very musical systems, giantkiller rare components that sound 90-95% as good as stuff costing many $1000's more.

Having said all that, there is a lot to digest here.  I agree with Inna, Mapman, and others with a lot of their ideas and comments, and my advice might shoot in the face of logic and I wouldn't believe it, if I hadn't heard it with my own ears.

I'm going to offer an opinion based on an audition that flies counter of what most people believe here, and I wouldn't believe it myself, if I didn't hear it.

Room acoustics will play probably the most important role here because if you have a lousy room acoustically, the most expensive gear in the world will not sound so great if you start off on a bad foundation, so I would invest part of that budget getting the room acoustics right, or as right as you can.   

The tube amp will be playing heavily, so you want something that runs tubes conservatively and has heavy duty trannies.  Organ amps make great tube amps because the transformers are so heavy duty, they are designed to be on all the time.  I owned one for many years, a modified Conn organ amp, it was 8 wpc in push pull triode using 6BG6 tubes and was one of the finest amps I ever heard.  Outperformed a McIntosh 225 which was according to TAS, their best sounding stereo tube amp, althought the MC240 and MC275 were more popular.  It's a stretch, I understand, but I would consider taking a chance on it.  Will Vincent makes a very nice looking modded Baldwin organ amp that probably would be very reliable in your situation.  The higher power would compliment the Vandersteens that you seem to really like.

The other idea that you seem to be leaning towards, as I read thru the thread, is that you might be considering higher efficiency speakers.  I have heard a 2 wpc 2A3 amp fill a huge hotel meeting room being played on ultra efficient horn speakers.  That's a whole different animal from a very lush push pull tube amp; however, I think that low power-high efficiency spkrs is the best sound of all - hence my username.

I once went to a high end show and over the course of the day, I heard all kind of different tubes and tube topologies.  SE, SET and push pull amps, wired in triode, pentode, Class D amps and SS amps with tube preamps and after the day, I concluded that my favorite was a SET amp which used interchangeable triode tubes from 2A3, 45, 50, 10's, 300b's with single driver speakers.  I also liked el84 tubes which are also reasonably low powered.  My least favorite were the highest powered amps.  The class D amps matched with a tube preamp was also a nice combination.  

The most interesting thing was that the room with this high end SET amp with the $5000 single driver speakers that sounded amazing had the cheapest sources.  They used a first generation cd player with one of those cheap 1980's close n play turntables, hardly even mid fi but it all sounded wonderful!  The thought of coupling cheap source components with great gear defies logic, certainly the logic that Ivor T. from Linn always espoused.   Having said that, I would consider a classic turntable, one with a repeat function so you can hear the record over and over without having to get up and change it every 20 minutes.  I had a fully manual Rega table for over 20 years, now at 55, I never want to get a manual table again.  

A few years ago, for $125, I bought an elegant Kenwood KD2055 or 3055, I forget the exact model, with corian base and put a good cartridge on it and was in heaven.  You don't have to spend gobs of $$$ in this hobby, its all about system synergy.  I've bought plenty of used gear and have always gotten lucky that they all seem to work really well together.

I was never a Magneplanar fan as many folks are, they look fantastic, but the small sweet spot always got in the way of enjoying them.  An on interconnects, I try not to go to crazy about it, as long as I have something good, I don't obsess about it.  A good silver interconnect makes me happy.  I also heard the Goertz speaker wire and you can't go wrong with that either.  

Sorry to be so long winded here, a nice single ended triode amp with the high efficiency Zu's or other single driver or horn speakers would be very pleasing.  You might even prefer it to Vandersteens which are lush sounding but not as transparent.  Keep us posted on the RMAF and enjoy the journey :-)
Lou 

One last thought, aesthetics plays an important role in our audio systems and I agree nothing looks better than the glowing tubes.  A real conversation starter.  Likewise, the Cain & Cain tall single driver speakers are pretty cool looking too.  Forget the model #, but they definitely are conversation pieces.  

I just read under the Misc category, that sometimes the RMAF might not be the best place to do serious listening because of everyone talking, hope that's not the case when you go there.....

Agree with Inna, get your system in the room, then work on treatments.  I remember at the stereo store I worked in we had thick curtains in our high end room and the back wall was a few feet away from it and it sounded pretty awful.  I would look into the product Green Glue which might be the least expensive way to deaden a room and keep loud sounds from escaping into other rooms.  I used it in several commercial and residential real estate applications with great results.  Your basically installing 1/2 to 5/8" sheetrock over the existing wall with several tubes of Green Glue in between that is an elastomeric substance between the two and it greatly damps out sounds into the other rooms.  There is also a very good book on the market all about room acoustics, forget the name of it, might be called "Good Sound"  

Enjoy the show and do try to zero in on a total budget here.  Also, try to zero in on which tube sound that you like.  For me, there were 2 significant events, shows that I attended which allowed me to listen to many different amps and figure all of that out.

Around the year 2000, I went to a Single Ended Symposium put on by Stereophile magazine here in Philadelphia.  Prior to that I'd never heard SE amps and at this time they had returned in popularity.  That day I heard SET amps from Dennis Had of Cary, David Berning, Audio Note, Don Garber of FI, and several other brands.  I heard 845s, 211s, 300B's and 2A3's.  We listened thru 104 db horn speakers, a CAT preamp, Goertz spkr wire and IC's and Sony's new Super CD player or whatever was the new top of the line in CD technology.  At the end of the day, the least expensive, smallest powered amp, the 3 wpc, FI 2A3 monoblocks were clearly the best sounding amp in the room.  The highest powered amps, the 845's sounded worst - although they were all excellent and I could be happy with all of them, but the 2A3 sounded best to my ears and many others in the room.  There were several writers, equipment reviewers in the room from Stereophile, TAS, and Listener magazine.  The room was quite large, 40x40 perhaps and 3 wpc filled the room.

Years later, I went to the Vacuum Tube Valley show in Central NJ and heard push pull amps using KT88's, EL34's, 6BQ5's, KT66's and 6BG4's.  Again, the best, to me, was the lowest powered amps, the 6BQ5/EL84 revision of the Dyna MKII (18 wpc), and a modded Dyna Stereo 70 which used 6BG4's in PP triode for 12 wpc.  

I also got to hear Single Ended Triode amps, one Italian int amp in particular that could operate using 2A3's, 45's, 10's, 300B's, and 50's with the turn of a dial.  Each produced a slightly different sonic signature and I concluded again that the lowest powered combination sounded best to my ears.

I also heard digital amps, and digital amps with tube preamps and they were also very very good.  A little bit sterile, but the tube preamp warmed them up.  

If you are looking at very high efficiency speakers, above 100 db, then the ultra low SET amps would work fine.  

I also heard high efficiency single driver speakers from Omega, Lowther and others.  The Lowthers I was not a fan of....

As for the Atma-sphere brand you mentioned, I believe it is probably very expensive.  A couple of years ago, I picked up an Antique Sound Labs MG-Si15DT for about $400 which runs KT88's in SE pentode and SE triode for 15/5 wpc respectively.  I was always curious to hear a KT88 in SE, since I really wasn't a fan of it in PP.  It was a great sounding int amp for not much money.  ASL also makes a 2A3 amp the Tulip which supposed to be very good as well.  Its not a current model, but you might be able to find one used.....That's if you like high efficiency speakers

So, see what you like most, see which tube type and topology you like best be it PP or SE.  I never owned or heard an OTL amp, but to me, they are not very practical.  They take lots of tubes, they must draw lots of heat and electricity and could be a real hassle.  I want something that will run tubes conservatively and will get lots of life from the tube.  

I think that a 6BQ5/EL84 based amp whether in PP or SE is a great place to start.  It's a great sounding tube and is inexpensive to re-tube.  It doesn't give you quite the coolness of a coke bottle styled 2A3 tube but it also way less expensive as well......A long time ago, I had an early Jeff Korneff 6BQ5 SE pentode int amp that was 5 wpc

If you like the low powered SET w/hi efficiency speakers combination, you couldn't do much better than a Korneff 45 if you can find one or a 2A3 amp, IMHO.  You can pick up a Korneff in the $1500-2K range

For way less than the price of some of the amps listed above, I could put together an incredible sounding system that could hold its own with gear costing 1000's more......enjoy the show, looking forward to hearing your comments when you return....

That's awesome that the 200K system sounded terrible to you, that's what I've been saying for years.  I once went to a high end salon and was listening to over $100K of gear and thought for this kind of dough, it should sound so much better.  Then I went home to my modest single ended $2K system and felt it was at least 95% as good as the ultra expensive system, and I have had that experience many times.

I have never actually heard the Zu's but am not surprised.  I have never heard or read a bad thing about them.  They also have a very high impedence which makes them mate very well with low powered tube amps.

The Harberth's are British and my favorite speakers are British.  ProAc, Spendor, Rogers, Harbeth, Epos, Celestion, KEF, etc.are all British and they are all consistently excellent and disappear.  If you like the warmth of British speakers, there are many other used British speakers that might be a viable choice for you; however, they excel in the monitor sized speakers, IMO.   

There was a really nice Cary 300SEI, 11 wpc, 300B SET int amp on Washington DC's CL for $2450. Stereophile recommended int amp.  Might be worth looking into....