Dear @chakster : Your Sony tonearm normally was coming integrated to the Sony TT PSX series ( 70,60,50. ) and that’s why came with that protractor. It’s really weird to find out a stand alone unit like yours.
You can try 235mm on P2S distance and listen which P2S mount like you more.
Btw: """
like Raul, pretends on absolute opinion ..""". Sorry you look me that way. My opinion is only an opinion and nothing more. It's like yours or every one else.
It's always funny when you guys can comment on something you never owned, that's the quietest amp combo i have ever heard with the highest resolution ever, killer dynamics, it's pretty real presentation. But you're talking about noise and Raul is always about distortion.
Dear @chakster : Your Sony tonearm normally was coming integrated to the Sony TT PSX series ( 70,60,50. ) and that’s why came with that protractor. It’s really weird to find out a stand alone unit like yours.
My Sony PUA-7 tonearm is stand alone version with an integrated armlift, not a turntable integrated cheaper version. Yeah, i know it's very rare!
Raul, What the heck are you talking about when you say "UNIDIN"? Actually, after posting, I recalled that I used the Feickert protractor for alignment after setting the P2S at 231.5mm. Set to the Baerwald scale on the Feickert. Anyway, you hate the FR64S to begin with, so why do you care? I certainly don't care.
Yes, and at 231.5 using the Feickert, I was easily able to achieve Baerwald. So in this case, I trusted Dertonearm (who advised me to use 231.5 instead of the FR recommended 230mm P2S) and not FR.
On that other issue, it was actually due to my own experience that I came to the conclusion (right or wrong) that one ought to use the geometry for which the tonearm was intended by its designers. When I set up a cartridge according to Baerwald in my Dynavector DV505 which was made for Stevenson or something near to it, the cartridge body was naturally at an angle with respect to the long axis of the head shell. Twisted inward a bit. The result was distorted sound that I could easily hear. I then took the same set-up and re-aligned it according to the Dynavector recommended geometry. This effected a marked improvement. I theorized that when the arc of the motion of the cantilever is not in line with the arc of the vertical bearing, this creates assymetrical forces on the cantilever, and that is not a good thing. Such a problem may only pertain to the DV tonearms, where the two bearings (vertical and horizontal) are completely separate. In a more conventional pivoted tonearm, the unification of the vertical and horizontal motion in one single bearing may allow for compensation, force-wise. I don't consider my little experience to be proof of my hypothesis, but it fits the facts so far.
Dear @chakster : Yes, I know that but the protractor is the one that came with the TT/tonearm unit where they have a space problem to mount it. As almost all japanese manufacturers Sony did not cares to much of the importance of tonearm/cartridge precise/accurate set up according the standard alignments and that's why you said the PUA-7 comes with a special geometry. It's special because does not goes with any of the standards but it's even worst than Stevenson A.
My advise is that you forget that protractor and make the tonearm/cartridge alignment set up using the Feickert you own, even if you choose again Stevenson A you will have lower distortion levels with the Feickert.
Dear @lewm : I podted because your comment that could make your own alignment and you are rigth any one can, that was an example.
I'm posting here even that the FR tonearms are a bad design because the owners like you can improve the quality performance level in the FR tonearm. I know that you don't care then is not for you but for the ones that cares about making some " simple " changes in the overall alignment set up all can do it.
@ivelchev did it with out changing the P2S distance.
My take here in this alignment regards and with any pivoted tonearm is always that tif he arm board and tonearm headshell permit it set up the alignment choosing Löfgren A/Baerwald or B with a bit longer length that the manufacturer spec for effective length. How much longer?, as the set up permit it.
In that way the tracking error will goes down as the distortions levels and these means that we will have/listen more groove recorded information with less/lower degradation. Worth to do it . That's why I told you to test 247mm/250mm on effective length using Löfgren A/Baerwald, you will receive better quality on what you are listening today. No doubt about. No, I don't care if you do or not.
Again, I know that you don't care and like in your Dynavector tonearm set up you follows the manufacturer specs even with higher distortions but that's you.
Through the years I learned the critical importance of turntable/tonearm/cartridge alignment set up and the importance that the set up be made it with accuracy.
I got my FR-64s from the postman today. Soon i’ll be able to compare FR64fx side to side to FR-64s. Both arms are in perfect condition, but my 64fx is almost like new. I’ve been using my FR64fx with original W-250 (30mm long) superheavy counterweight, this weight does not comes with the arm, it must be purchased separately and it’s extremely rare.
The weight which i got on FR-64s is smaller (25mm long), probably it’s not the heaviest among those 3 different weight designed for FR-64s tonearm? Is that a medium weight @nandric ?
I have not mounted FR-64s, but what i can say immediately from the first look is that the armbase design of the 64s is awful compared to the beautiful 64fx armbase !
1) The base of 64fx is much bigger and thicker, it has two screws that does not require any tool to adjust/fix VTA of the tonearm quickly and easily. Actually there is no need for optional B-60 for 64fx!
2) The 64fx armbase has 3 vertical screws (tiangle) goes throught it to fix the armbase to the turntable base. The 64s does not have anything like that!
3) Then there is a huge nut under the base on 64fx. The nut of the 64s is much smaller and if we don’t have super expensive optional VTA on the fly base (B-60 for 64s) then mounting process is completely different compared to the 64fx tonearm.
4) Basically the 64s has some sort of thick washer and nut to fix the arm, the VTA can be fixed with two screws, but only with a tool. While the 64fx can be easily fixed manually first and then tighten up with a tool.
5) Tracking force ring on 64fx is much better! This ring works like an expensive safe lock, the movement of the ring is fixed step by step while the tracking force ring on the 64s has free smoth movement.
6) Curved pad of the armlift on 64fx is metal, while this pad on 64s is plastic (too bad).
*** In my opinion the Fidelity-Research FR-64fx toneam build quality and usability is much better than 64s ! Many mechanical things were improved on "fx" version. The FR 64fx tonearm is more user friendly for sure.
** Now i understand why each owner of the 64s is looking for B-60, but the owners of the 64fx shouldn’t worry about it.
* Later i will check is it true that 64s has better sonics than 64fx, but at the moment my choice is 64fx for many reasons described above.
I have recently received a FR 64s as well along with the B-60 and a FR 7f cartridge.
I had to make a new bore in an arm board to accommodate it and have yet to mount it. It is ready to go --so I will be interested in your comments for geometry and any other tips.
@nkj nice, i wish i could add that B-60 base and N-60 stabilizer to 64s. The 64fx is good as it is, in its stock condition.
I use Stevenson geometry with my FR-64fx + FR-7fz cartridge, as recommended by the manufacturer (Ikeda San). With this cartridge you can not change the geometry as you simply can’t twist the cartridge in the "headshell". With conventionel cartridge you can change the geometry, but not with a headshell integrated FR-7 series.
@chakster looking forward to your sonic comparison between both arms! I do agree with your description of the built quality and operability of the 64fx. Definitely not 'a poor man's 64s'.....
Anyone can tell me the exact weight of the original N-60 arm stabilizer nut ? I have FR brochure scan where i can see N-60 + additiona metal washer on the picture, the mass of the combo is 430g.
But what is the mass of the N-60 (without metal washer) ? Is it possible that the mass of the N-60 is 370g ?
It means the washer weight is 60g, is that true ?
Would be nice to check, because the N-60 normally shows up for sale without washer. I’m gonna use N-60 for 64fx tonearm.
No users of Fidelity-Research N-60 arm stabilizer nut here ? My collection completed, now i have N-60 and B-60. -The N-60 stabilizer nut will be on 64fx -The B-60 base on fr64s
I have the same set up as you. In my experience there is a clear sonic gain with the N-60 stabilizer nut. The added mass seems to benefits the 'bottom end' of the sonic spectrum and makes the whole presentation somewhat more relaxed. This can be observed with both the 64s and 64fx arms. Sonically the B-60 base does the exact same thing, with the added convenience of VTA on the fly.
If anyone is interested, I have a spare N-60. It's a replica, but then again this is just a piece of machined stainless steel. No washer, but the same weight and same dimensions as the original. The only difference is that the original has a sticker with the model number.
My love to Ikeda & FR tonearms getting stronger. I'm a junkie about NOS vintage gear, i couldn't ignore Fidelity-Research FR-64fx in NOS condition in original box with documents (complete set). What a wonderful tonearm! Arrived this week, this is really a state of the art design. I like its black finishing, each time i compare it to the FR-64s i like the 64fx better. I've been using another sample with W-250 counterweight for FR-7fz. It's funny, but looking just for a small counterweight i ended up with another sample of FR-64fx (NOS) with this counterweight. So now i can use this arm with conventional cartridges (higher compliance).
Wonderful. The general consensus is that the S is superior (of course cart compliance is a factor) but this is yet again proof that there is more than one answer to most audio questions ;) I only have the FR64S so can't compare...
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