Pdreher,
The builder of my Coincident amp(Israel Blume) loves their sound and use to offer the KR 300b as an upgrade. He stopped due to frequent tube failure and the unwillingness of the company to back the warranty and replace tubes.He now prefers the Shuguang BT series and the Psvane black 300b. |
Gsm,
Tough luck, Based on your brief listening session it still seems to match the raves of the 6 Moons review. This is a 'brand new' tube that I`ll imagine will only get better. My amp is auto bias and made to except the WE standard. I`m very interested in your tubes.Email charles1dad@aol.com |
Isochronism,
The plot is indeed thickening. |
Isochronism,
Abill is referring to Gsm`s Takasuki 300b which are`nt compatibile with his Ancient Audio amp. He`s not referring to your RP tubes sent to me. |
Maxmad,
I just received Isochronism`s(Brett) new tubes (via Sophia) RP tubes last night, I 'may' get The Takatsuki tubes from Gsm if he decides to sell them. Will keep this thread updated, if all works out in the coming days. |
Maxmad, I won`t be able to listen until this weekend,then I`ll post impressions. |
Yesterday I placed an order with Amtrans for a pair of the Takatsuki-TA 300b tubes. I should have them in 3 weeks, in the mean time I`ll get familiar with Isochronism`s(Brett) esteemed Sophia Royal Princess.I admit a certain bias with 'high end' japanese products(my Yamamoto DAC is just fantastic, music yes, hifi no). By all reliable accounts the engineering and construction of this tube is to the highest degree and is a no nonsense attempt to build the very best 300b tube they possibly could. I`ll bite on this one.
Regards, |
Maxmad,
I think you`re correct about the Airtight connection(good IMO). I won`t be able to evaluate or listen for the next few days(other obligations). I will post initial RP impressions and of course Takasuki once I receive them, I`ll be patient until then.I hope you`re right about the "audio orgasms".
Regards, |
Maxmad,
Thanks for your comments and encouragement. I never would have believed I`d spend 1400 USD for a pair of 300b tubes.The Shuguang BT have been excellent for me the past 30 months (and shoud be for 600 USD at the time).But when I get a 'strong gut feeling' about a product it usally turns out well for me.Examples, going the SET route with the Frankenstein amplifier, then getting the DHT tube based Coincident linestage(to match). Buying the little known Yamamoto DAC and Ocellia Silver Reference cables.
These choices were 'profoundly right' for me, I hope this string continues with the Takatsuki tubes. Time will tell.
Regards, |
Hi Maxmad,
The RP tubes brett sent me have uneven output(one is noticeably louder than the other). I`m going to return them to Sophia for inspection and work things out with brett.
The Takasuki tubes(ordered 1 week ago) should arrive in about 2 weeks. |
I just received my Takatsuki 300b tubes today(10 days earlier than expected!).I `ll listen tonight after work and will post very early impressions tomorrow.
The packaging and presentation is first rate and the testing measurements are in english(good) but the instruction booklet is japanese only. I`m no tube expert by any means but the appearance and 'feel' of these tubes are really high quality. I`m curious to see how they compare to my beloved Black Treasure tubes which I enjoy so much.I don`t know how many hours are required for burn-in, I guess I`ll soon find out.
Regards, |
I`ll just come out and say it now,after 2 1/2 hours of listening tonight with my friend Jwm(audiogon member). The Takatsuki 300b is 'OUTSTANDING! plain and simple truth. I`ve been so pleased with the Shuguang BT for quite a while on a nearly daily basis and freely recommended it to others, it`s a very very good tube. The Takatsuki is in an entirely different class.It is superior to the BT in every parameter, bass is deeper,better controlled(but not over damped at all)there`s better articulation,tone and nuance. Stunning midrange true of tone,weight,saturation and believability. Instruments and voices are just vivid and alive.Upper frequencies are superb,airy,open and without hardness or phony 'hyper detail'.Resolution, transparency and dynamics are supreme.
Now to the important point, The music we heard tonight was utterly devine.If like me you cherish natural/organic reproduction of music you have found your ideal tube.
I realize I`m heaping much praise on a tube with less than 3 hours of use but this tube is honestly a standout. If it does`nt improve a hair from this point onward I would`nt care. 1,450.00 USD is a very steep price for one pair of tubes, well they`re worth every penny of it.This is the 300b tube for those who want ultra quality music reproduced in the most realistic and natural manner.
I still must compare it to the Sophia RP(once they`re returned frrom Sophia). The japanese craftsmen/engineers did a stupendous job with this project. They really love music or it would`nt have been possible to be this sucessful.
Best Regards, |
Maxmad,
If this tube continues to improve over a 100 hour burn-in, oh my goodness! The one major concern I had prior to buying was the cost of these tubes. I`m very value aware and know all to well the diminishing slope aspect of high end audio. There`re many examples where more money does`nt equal better performance.You have to spend wisely.
IMO the Takatsuki is most fairly price given its supreme sound and if someone wants what is likely one of the very best 300b available. The RP is 1200.00 USD,old stock WE 300b are well over 2000 USD and going ever higher in price(what`s their true condition and history of use/hours?). Try finding an AVVT 300b mesh plate and how much will it cost? I would still strongly suggest the BT tubes in their price range, they will out perform many other 300b choices.
If you want to hear the best of your amplifier and are willing or able to spend 1200-1450 USD it will come dowm to the Sophia RP or the Takatsuki(current production tubes with a warranty).
Best Regards, |
Maxmad,
The BT tubes impressed me more than they did you it seems. They may just mate better with my Coincident amp as compared to your Cary perhaps. According to the Takatsuki web site the monthly production ot their 300b is 30 pair per month. At their price they probably don`t expect to sell a lot of them. |
Hey Jeff,
Thanks for your comments and for joining me last night to listen.It was so much fun and those tubes are absolutely emotionally involving,it was as if there were no speaker in the room just the musicians and singers. This Takatsuki is unreal.It would be fantastic to hear a KT88 version in your VAC monoblocks!
Regards, |
Hi Phaelon,
1200 USD could very well be enough. The RP could be the equal of the Takatsuki for all I know. This stuff is so subjective and it depends on what amp,system and of course who`s pair of ears are involved. Phaelon with your NAF amps things could certainly differ. All I can state at this stage is the Coincident Frankenstein-Takatsuki combination is ridiculously superb.
Fla,
I should have the RP tubes in about a week. |
Phaelon,
Thanks for your kind comments.The funny thing is this,I was so content with the BT tubes in my system.That 6 Moons review with those heart felt comments by the Polish Sonic Society members really stuck with me. A few of them use the old stock WE 300b in their personal amplifiers yet were so moved by the Takatsuki`s performance. Now I understand completely. |
Antigrunge,
Thanks for your reply,I may try some in the near future.
Montejay,
That`s a very good question you raise.As I`ve said before I was very satisfied with the sound of the BT tubes.I had the fortune of listening to a pair of Western Electric 300b (re issused version 1990s vintage) in the Frankenstein amp today(thanks to a very kind loan). While okay,I preferred the sound of the BT by a comfortable margin,It`s more natural,lively and involving.
I do believe there`s synergy at work here, some 300bs just perform better in certain amplifiers. The BT just mates ideally with the Frankenstein. Other amps are voiced with the WE and will sound superb with them no doubt. If I had to go back to the BT I 'could' still enjoy this tube.
Montejay,having heard the Takatsuki-TA in the Frankenstein I must tell you it is in a class above in every way.This tube is simply special. Would this apply to all amps? I certainly could`nt say with any authority. The BT is IMO a 'very' good - near excellent tube,the Takasuki relatively speaking is a stunning tube across the board.
The problem is of course we don`t share the same pair of ears,you could disagree with my impressions. Given the high cost of the japanese tube, well it`s a genuine bargain for what it has done in my system. As you know the Franks are so darn transparent and resolved, you`ll hear even the smallest nuance of difference with each tube quite easily. Montejay, with you Pure Refernce speaker you will clearly hear it all without question.
Best Regards, |
Jeff,
I `ll admit to being a bit measured when describing what I hear when making comparisions.I`m cognizant of the fact that it`s only my opinion and limited to one amplifier(Coincident Frankenstein) in use. The reality is that 300b tubes vary significantly in sound and then factor in the many different 300b amps available suddenly you find quite a few variables to account for.
I described the WE tube as just OK as it was so outclassed (clearly )by the Takasuki, I just did`nt feel the need to beat it up.
Others will contend the WE re-issue 300b is one of the very best available (its certainly been reviewed with those conclusions many times). One thing I know regarding high end audio, opinions will be all over the map and mine is but one among many. |
Swampwalker,
Thanks very much for your kind tube loan offer. I`ll email you. Are you using the VAC Renaissance30/30?
best Regards, |
Hi Maxmad,
Hope to finally hear the RP next week.
The Takatsuki has about 60-65 hours and has only gotten better. No night/day change but noticable improvements, the sense of air, living-breathing pressence along with dynamic power and projection is uber quality.This tube is very energetic and emotional ly involving yet it maintains a sense of supreme refinement and control.Resoulution,nunance and articulation is fanstastic! you will hear the most suble differences between all recordings nothing is masked over or veiled. This is done in a most natural and holistic manner(not clinical-analytical by any means).
Bottom line, the Takatsuki is an extraordinary 300b and I can`t imagine how it would fail to impress those who want pure natural music as opposed to hifi artificiality.It is clearly better than the Shuguang BT and just outclassed the Western Electric re-issue 300b in my system
Regards, |
Hello Marcus,
The Frankenstein-BT 300b is stellar as you say(it bettered virtually everything else I`ve heard in home audio systems for my taste). The contact is audio@amtrans.co.jp they answer with good english translation. Given your fine system I believe the improvement with the Takatsuki will be blatantly apparent and worthwhile.
Marcus what prompted the change from your high powered Cary to the 8 watt Frankenstein?
Regards, |
Hi Markus,
Thank you for your kind comments.The Frankenstein is a fabulous amplifier but obviously not 'perfect'. There`s always some inherent trade offs with any component even if slight.My 100 watt/60watt triode Bella Extreme amp was a 'bit' more dyanamic(but only at louder levels than I would normally listen at) and it has just a bit more bass weight/impact with certain music.The 8 watt Franks are close enough however and in 'all' other areas is a clearly superior amp.
I`ve always admired the VAC Renaissance amps and some trades offs likely exist here as well.
Funny thing is that the Takatsukis do add significant improvement in both dynamics and bass weight and firmness(also better articulation and texture)that narrows the already small gap in this area.
Recommendations are tricky and are`nt guaranteed but I`m fairly certain you`ll be very pleased with the change to the Takatsuki.8 watt SET vs 30 watt push-pull, how do they differ in tonality.air, openess and transparency? You have two very fine amplifiers though with different perspectives of sound. |
Pdreher, your Daedalus speakers would sound well with either of the VAC REN amps,even the 30/30 is a potent little beast. |
Markus,
As I suspected, two really good amps with their own individual advantages. I`d expect 32 watts of push--pull 300b to be advantageous for a bit more grunt and dynamics yet still very good at everything else. I`d expect the Frankenstein to be a bit more pure and nuanced but still have very realistic dynamics. You can`t go wrong in your situation.
The BT tubes could very well be an upgrade in the VAC REN amplifier. The only relative drawback I`ve heard regarding this amp is the circuit is 'hot rod design' and is said to be hard on the 300b (shorten life span). Otherwise everything else concerning the amp is positive across the board.
I`ll be very interested to read your impression of the Takatsuki-Frankenstein match, as dynamic performance and projection/energy(overall scale) is one of the most noticable improvemnets over the BT 300b.If I did`nt own the Franks I could live quite happily with the VAC 30/30 amp.
Regards, |
Pdreher,
There`s no discount available. Fortunately for me I only need one pair, I feel your pain as the cost for multiple pairs can climb in a hurry.I like your conversion of the REN70/70to a 30/30. With your efficient speakers the 30/30 should be plenty enough power and perhaps a bit purer sounding(fewer tubes- simpler effect). |
Maxmad,
Are the only changes with the Takatsuki cosmetic? |
Hi Gsm,
How are these latest Takatsuki tubes working out for you? |
Paul,
What are you actually hearing differently in the 30/30 format that you don`t with the 70/70?
Regards, |
Update,
I will receive a new pair of the RP shipped out today per sue at Sophia Electric(they`re very cooperative and friendly).
Maxmad, you say the Takatsuki is increasing their price? Wow! it`s a superb 300b but it` very expensive at current price. When will this price increase happen?
It makes me wonder how good the new Psvane W.E. replica could be for it`s price. Could their engineering,parts and built perhaps come very close to the japanese standard(ultra high).Could the Psvane sound nearly/or as good?
Regards, |
Maxmad,
I got an email from Keiko at AMtrans confirming an increase price with the new 300b model for mid april. I`ve asked her to send me information on what 'exactly' the differnces are between these two tubes besides a different base color.Good lord! can the sound possibly improve from it`s stunning current level? |
Jwm,
If in fact there`re sonic improvement(not for certain yet) I agree with you.
I got the RP tubes 30 minutes ago and they`re warming up now. Well out of the box they sound very good! I`ll burn them in over the next 2 days and post early impressions this weekend. This tube is off to a promising start that`s for sure.
Regards, |
Pdreher,
The KR is said to be a very good sounding tube.The problem is certain vintages have a spotty reputation for reliability. The VAC REN circuit(hot rod) is said to be demanding and tough on the 300b. I hope you got the good ones.Best of luck. |
The Royal Princess(RP) is really impressing me. It betters the W.E.reissue and the Shuguang BT(my base line 300b). The RP is not embarrassed by the splendid Takasuki and they have similarities though they`re not identical. Both excel at the highest level at the frequency extremes.Bass is full weight , articulate,impactful,well controlled with natural bloom but absent of bloat and flab. Both tubes are with much upper frenquency extension and quite airy,very resolved but natural(neither is analytical,edgy or harsh).
Both are excellent in the midrange and posess full-realistic tone and body,detail is top level.Voices and instruments are just convincingly realistic very organic(not artificial hifi)
How they differ, IMO these two are uber 300b tubes but I find the Takasuki is just a bit more suave,smoother and refine(I`m speaking in terms of small degrees).The Takatsuki is perceptively a bit more involving and nuanced.I feel these two are peers and in the same uppermost hierarchy of current production 300b tubes.The RP is just a little bolder and upfront(not in a negative way) both are vivid and have excellent and just beautiful color saturation and simply wonderful overtones/harmonic preservation.
Maxmad did`nt particularly care for the RP in his Cary amp but I find it a great match with the Frankenstein. The Takatsuki is just that small but noticably better in the musicality-involvement area.
On a very strict scale where 70=solid performance and 100= absolute perfection.In my system I grade the following,
W.E.reissue =70(just did`nt impress vs the others in my amplifier)
BT=85(very good all around)
RP=93(excellent!)
Takatsuki=95 (sublime experience for me)
Best Regards, |
I want to thank Isochronism(Brett) once again for his very generous and trusting loan of the RP tubes to a perfect stranger. Brett, the RP must sound fantastic in your Wavelength amplifier,sonic bliss I`m sure.I know The builder of your amp likes the W.E. but I`d find it hard to believe they beat your combination(unless it`s true old NOS rather than reissue W.E. he prefers, and even then who knows?).
Best Regards, |
Hi Gwalt,
I`m glad you posted your impresiions, as you say different ears, amplifiers and system. Ultimately we reached the same conclusion, both are very premium 300b tubes but the Takatsuki is just a bit better yet in this 'uber' range. You`re right, I also could be happy(indeed) with either.Based on my experience, they both justify their steep price if you`re after superior 300b sound.
Well that`s the verdict so far with the Coincident Frankenstein MK II and the Border Patrol amplifiers.I wonder if the close ranking would change with depending on the amplifier in use? The Takatsuki allows a phenomenal emotional connection with music in my system.
Regards, |
Phaelon and Ischronism,
I and I`m sure Gwalt appreciate your comments.This comparing of upper level 300b has been most enjoyable.It confirms that a good quality-serious purpose 300b amplifier deserves(and responds) to better tubes. Buy the best tube that fits within your individual budget,you`ll be rewarded.
It`s really something to experience the transformation the RP and Takatsuki can allow if your amp/system are up to the task.Both of them are good right out of the box within just a few hours and they are continuing to improve with additional hours.
As far as I`m concerned a good quality amp with 'great' 300b tube combination mated with proper speaker just brings out the pure emotion,nuance and tactile realism of every recording I`ve listened to.I can`t imagine a return to solid state amplifiers again. They did`nt come close to this type of involvement(at least for me). There`s just something so holistic, complete and right with these two wonderful tubes. Expensive, yes are they worth it absolutely! |
Marcus,
True, but I did``nt want to be accused of 'over the top' praise. I was fairly confident you`d like them. With your Coincident Pure REF speakers I knew you`d hear all they`re capable of.I glad you took the chance and bought them. |
Hi Onemug,
I really appreciate your kind comments.The RPs have just over 40 hours and the Takatsuki 75-80 hours.Both tubes actually reveal their superb sound within 2-3 hours and just continue to get better and better,
Onemug I agree with you completely concerning the enthusiasm and spirit of this thread.I`ve grown bored with the 'my component is better than yours' nonsense, or the 'you like 300b based amps amps? you don`t want "neutrual/accurate" sound type of logic.
I hope other admirers of 300b amplifiers share their experiences and thoughts.Let the fun and information continue to flow.
Regards, |
I just can`t seem to shut up on this thread.
Gsm I`ve been eagerly awaiting your impressions,thanks a lot. Gsm you reminded me that I have`nt mention what music I use, I`m an absolute jazz nut(and seemto be getting worse).A friend and I reccently went to a local jazz club to see the young and 'very' talented guitarist Randy Napoleon who played with a sextet, beautiful music and up close sound(our table was next to the stage).These encounters always expose the full body and tone of these beautiful sounding instruments(lean,thin, edgy,nervous and clinical just are`nt present, nor bloated, flabby and slow)
I`ve been attending jazz venues frequently for the past 22 years and it`s a wonderful time and what training for the ears!
As a result of the ferequent exposure to the acoustic instruments and vocalists it seems when I listen to a system I can (it seems) sense/hear the artificial or canned sound of what some would considered high end- audiophile presentation. I`m in no way suggesting my hearing or taste is better than anyone else at all, just trying to explain my bias for context.
My bias is heavily toward the organic,holistic tone,timbre and overtones of music with natural dynamic ebb and flow.
My praise of the RP and Takatsuki centers on their exceptional ability to sound so natural and like real performances are present.They both push me closer to what I hear and also feel at the live jazz venues.
This is my point of reference,so those who share similar a orientation my high appreciation for these two 300b tubes will probably make some sense I hope. |
Gwalt,
I agree with every thing you you wrote above 100%. An excellent and clear summation of these two tubes.Well done! |
Hi Markus,
Congratulations!Profound differences,I believe you my brother,the Frankenstein with the Takatsuki becomes insanely good. I really look forward to your impressions with that combo and also the VAC REN 30/30 with the BT tubes.Marcus, you`re living good right now.
Regards, |
I`d follow Kevin`s advice he knows his product`s characteristics best. |
Hi Markus,
With additional burn-in hours do you have updates for both the Frank/Takatsuki and VAC 30/30 with BT tubes? |
Phaelon,
You raise a crucial point, there are just so many variables involve when trying to evaluate{fairly) and compare tubes or components in general.I was highly impressed with the RP in my system(as I tried to express earlier). If the Takatsuki breaks-in much sooner than the RP that`s an obvious advantage toward the Takatsuki when comparing new versions of both.Although I did have a bit more preference for the Takatsuki,I could except the fact that when'fully' broken-in these two elite 300b tubes could very well be equals.Phaelon I certainly don`t doubt what you are hearing now with the RP.
Regards, |
Hello Al,
The VAC REN amplifiers have auto bias, would`nt that compensate(at least somewhat) to the various ma levels? |
Swampwalker,
Al makes a very good point concerning the 'ma' value can very under different test conditions or machine used.
My Takatsuki spec sheet said my tubes ma is 66.6 for both tubes. My friend has a digital tube tester and measured my tubes at 75.4 ma.
Markus I`m really happy the Takatsuki worked out for you. They`re a lot of money but I felt the level of your system would exploit this brilliant tube`s quality. |
Simmo2741,
I believe many of us would appreciate a comparison such as this. One of the very best current production 300b tubes and what`s likely the gold standard 'early' Western Electric 300b tubes, should be interesting. |
I thought I`d post an update now that I`ve had these tubes awhile(over 150 hours). If anything my admiration has grown, this Takatsuki 300b is an extraordinary tube. It`s overwhelming strength is reproducing music in a completely 'natural' and pure manner.There`s just minimal if any electronic artifact present. In audiophile terms it`s really perfectly balanced from bass to the highest frequencies.Space,ambience,ultra resolved, 3-D presence with air,superb soundstaging and image density are top tier. But what is more important(to me) and more elusive is how it just connects you emotionally and simply won`t let go. This tube is all about getting to the core/essence of music.
The tone/harmonics/overtones with acoustic instruments and human voice is the best I`ve experienced in home audio so far.It combines utter refinement with vivid energy and dynamic authority that`s unmatched in my experience. It`s very difficult to bring a listening session to an end,very difficult. A good 300b amplifier with this tube is a special experience.
Regards, |
Antigrunge,
My amplifier came with General Electric 6EM7 1950s vintage. |
