@ kiddmann, I am glad you made me aware of the cautions of the 66000 speakers!, I most likly would not be able to fix that!, @ Dave_72, Are the K2s foward sounding with a high current amp like my Krell 700cx?, cheers! |
Well, To all you gentlemen here!, I am not really talking about what mods ptss is saying!, I am talking about, state of the art resonance tunning that I specialize in!, thats how I make a world class system be one!, Not isolation, I use the vibrations of resonance to my benefit!, cheers! |
Hi Kiddman,
Yeah, I mean working better in a small or medium room than a large room.
No problem if you haven't heard 'em. You might want to just for the Hell of it. |
Audiolabyrinth. I appreciate Kiddmans comments.Mixing and matching can always be factors. However I find most people use no isolation or conditioning on their solid state pre or amp and so noise becomes a significant contribution to the overbright upper end of the loudspeakers used.
I'm glad you have discovered just what joy comes out of properly set up isolation & conditioning, power cables, speaker cables, i/c's. I know a lot of folks don't have the patience or the ears for it. We are lucky. |
Dave says "I take it the S4700s would probably be better in a medium to smaller size room too, true?"
Kidd says: Do you mean better than the Everest in small rooms? I doubt anything they make will have the mids, highs, dynamics of Everest.
If you mean that the 4700 would work better in a small and mid room than the 4700 would in a large room, don't know, have not heard them. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
That's one Hell of a deal on the Everests. And yeah, at that price, you might as well forget the K2s. Are the Everests new, demo, or used? Just curious. Anyway, I would go for it! Good luck! |
Hi Kiddman,
Thanks for letting me know about the performance in large rooms. I take it the S4700s would probably be better in a medium to smaller size room too, true?
As far as JBLs and amps, I found that Class A solid state like Pass Labs and Accuphase works well too. |
I don't want misinformation out there. To further clarify, 66000 are great and I would not try to dampen enthusiasm over them. However, having had 66000 and 67000 same place, same equipment, A then B, it is a fact 67000 is not one of those small refinement upgrades. Room treatment would not make this difference. Direct sound is direct sound no matter what treatment you do.
One thing to keep in mind is that the 66000 can be forward, and depending on the amp, can be VERY forward and prominent in the highs. Some solid state amps will drive you out of the room. I found tubes worked much better.
The 67000 are a lot more forgiving, and solid state amps work much better now. And tubes still work great.
So, if you go 66000 be prepared to possibly need to find the amp that pleases you. Luckily, a stiff 50 to 100 watt tube amp can do the trick. As for the highish looking efficiency, don't let that fool you, no 5w or 10w SET is going to get the woofers going to the depths of what the speaker is capable of. |
I agree with you ptss!, I have done that many times, making a great speaker out perform a much more exspensive pair of speakers, You would be supprised to know a whole lot of people do not know how to do this!, yes, If I get the 66000 speakers I would excell the performance of them as I do with most speakers that have a good balanced sound signature!, This is good that you know this!, alot of people laugh at the idea!, they do not believe it is possible!, cheers! |
Audiolabrinth,6600 at $25,000 seems a great investment. A 'few' (we can talk) extra dollars on isolation,conditioning and room treatment will probably give you sound that exceeds whatever anyone with the 6700's is getting. Unless they put in the above effort as well-which I doubt for the most part. ATB. Pete |
I love this Thread!, everyone is so educated on whats being talked about here!, I enjoy you guys, Dave_72, Kiddmann,,,, I was considering the 66000 because they are around $25,000.00 to $28,000.00 used!, thats a better price then the K2s new!, I am assuming that the 66000 are better than the K2s. cheers! |
Hey Dave,
I have heard them in an immense ballroom and a smaller room. They went deeper in the smaller room, that's an advantage. They were more open with more even bass in the huge room.
To a degree they benefit from a large room. But, my point was that they work remarkably well in a small room....and the designer had that in mind since he knew his biggest market was Japan (small rooms).
They are surprisingly versatile, the 67000 even more so. |
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Hi Kiddmann,
Thanks for your comments. I hate being corrected. lol. I never would have guessed that, conventional wisdom being what it is. However, wouldn't the Everests benefit from being in a big room though? I can't see how they wouldn't... |
@ kiddmann, Thats my ticket punched!, what you just said about the room sizes for the everest speakers!, thanks, and cheers! |
I've heard them 10 feet apart center to center in a room quite a bit narrower than 20 (guessing 14) and they sounded fantastic, smooth, clean, no bass boom or excess bass at all. They do not need a giant room and in fact were designed to be a able to work in Japanese rooms which are not big. |
You're welcome! Krell is good stuff and should drive any of the JBLs you're looking at without a problem.
As for the room, I'd say a minimum of 20 x 25 x 9 give or take. Since the Everests are a wide speaker they need a wider room. So, I would say the K2s or S4700s would be a better fit.
I would go for the K2s as they're the closest thing to the Everest, and are a better fit for your room. But only if you get a substantial discount. $44K a pair is a bit much for those if you ask me.
Take care! |
@ Dave_72, Thankyou for the kind words regarding my amp,I really have a small to medium room, But, At this cost point of a pair of used DD Everest 66000 we would seek another house to rent if need be!, you know, get a whole lot bigger listening room, what do you think the mininum would be for a room for the 66000?, I have a 11 1/2 by 17 now with a 4ft opening in the center of the rear wall that gives us another 4ft, we love to stand in that spot, gives us alot of listening pleasure!, cheers! |
The K2 is definitely better than the S4700, there's no arguing that. But the S4700 is good bang for the buck. You have a good amp. It just depends on the size of your room and listening tastes. If you have the room and the funds, by all means go for the Everests! lol. |
@ Dave_72, I have A krell 700cx, I was cosidering buying the DD 66000 everest used, what do you recommend?, the k29900s, s4700.., I have a pair of L7 with the Taralabs omega jumpers on them and the omega gold speaker cables, zero gold i/c connect to a Ayon cd-2s player untill I get A cd-5s player latter, the 2s sounds good, Its 6 weeks old!, oh, and still point ultra ss footers x 8!,on the bottom of my speakers, cheers! |
Hi Kiddman,
JBL does horns the right way. They don't have the typical horn colorations. |
Hi Audiolabyrinth,
Yes, I certainly am. Ok, cool, I believe I've seen you too. Well, what would you like to know. Yep, go JBL! |
To: Sakesan, I am very curious about the ATC actives. How would you compare them to the Everests that you have heard?
Which model of ATC do you have? |
Thanks for the nice comments above, guys.
Herd mentality is interesting, how markets can be swayed by one or two men can be amazing. Look at Parker in the wine world.
In the West, just a couple of magazines slamming horn speakers over and over and over resulted in compression driver/horn technology to be almost universally rejected. In light of this, I am surprised to see such JBL support in this thread.
Sure, there are some JBL bummers over the years, hurtfully harsh speakers. But there are nasty sounding cones too. Are cones black-balled?
Again, surprised to see the support here. One irony is that though horns are maligned in the West, many folks think Tannoys sound smooty....in fact, many folks would like more forwardness than Tannoys offer, without realizing they are compression drivers with horns. I've had folks tell me horns are awful, yet talk about the prettiness of Tannoy sound when I bring them up.
Another irony, I have some friends who trust my expertise greatly, but when I fell in love with Everests I heard over and over "but are you sure they are not bright? Are you sure they don't honk?" Every one of them, upon hearing, commented on the ease and sweetness of the speakers.
As for me, I don't care what technology something is. If it seems professionally executed I'll listen without prejudice. You have to. Every design is different. I never had heard a ceramic drivered speaker that did not drive me out of the room with harshness. But when I saw the Estalons 2 years ago I went into the room with interest, and was treated to some of the most natural, easy music I could have wished for. There they were, ceramic driver speakers with gorgeous tone. Dogma is unproductive. Unfortunately, forums here are full of it, much of it spouted by guys without much experience. So glad to see the posters on this thread are more open minded. |
@ dave_72, I did not know you are into JBL speakers!, I have seen you around on the gon!, Man, tell us more!, cheers!, that was great info!, Ptss has the legendary 250Ti here!, I am In lala land!, Go JBL! |
Don't underestimate the power of the dark side...I mean the S4700s, haha, as well as the K29900s. Both speakers punch well above their price points. The S4700s more so at a list price of $15000. I have a funny feeling that once these are reviewed, everyone's gonna be scrambling to buy them. That is my crazy prediction. The only drawback to these JBLs is they need A LOT of break in time, imo. They don't sound too good out of the box. Not very dynamic. Rather thin and lifeless. But once you put a lot of hours on them, they're superb and very revealing of associated equipment and recordings. |
@ ptss My digital player has a toggle switch on back to invert the phase in or out, cool huh?, Ptss, you seem like you are very cool!, I believe I dig you and your equipment!you have fantastic choices here!, some of the music you mentioned I am not familar with, I am 46 yrs old, how old do you mine me asking are you?,That was a wonderful story you told here, and to finish it off with a shot of whiskey made for a perfect end!, cheers! |
ps if you take a listen to Bollings big Band cd it's in reverse phase so switch them speakers leads to be 'lit up';) |
Audiolabrynth, must be my age but Claude sounds as beautiful as a clean fresh breeze. I haven't played him in years but he's still a "wow' in my books. You pulled me up into the clouds bud. The rest of my morning will definitely be "time well wasted!" CHEERS! |
1985. You have reminded me of the experience of selecting them. Very pleasant.
I compared to other better speakers in the $4-6/7000 price range available at the time. Brought my dearly departed mother and music loving wife to audition; take em shopping & to a fancy lunch/dinner, make the auditioning just a bit of time out in a fun days(s)(s)(s) in the city. I hate shopping and wanted a 'permanent' upgrade(never was that bright).
Solo piano,Gary Graffman, etc, flute Rampal,Galway (today Pahaud),Spanish guitar Romeros,Paco de Lucia, Carlos Bosa-Lima,Trios,etc, I Musici,Academy of St Martin in the Fields, Stan Getz Joao Gilberto, Great Guitars,and finally Steppane Grappelli, and then Claude Bollings Big band (records I still have but have also acquired on cd).
It simply boiled down to the fact the 250's simply "thrashed" everything else in the musical communication of melody, rhythm,dynamics, top end, bass power/slam and greatest of all- EMOTION (according to the women). I seem to be able to enjoy music out of a boom box(with power isolation/conditioning of course!)
The music though the TI's sent shivers down your spine, got your toes tapping, swept you away, and demanded a party!
The wife,Susan and mum Maureen got to dancing with Stephane and Claude!
Couldn't get them to leave the store w/o the 250's.
We got them, a C-J, Krell 100 and some MIT installed and music at my place was never the same.
I was replacing my beloved Quad 33/303 and Quad stats- which
we had loved til the girls & I heard the big dynamics, top end speed and extension, full mid range and bass slam of the 250's.
Well I'm happy you enquired and I'll say more about the speakers later;but I just put Claude on and I'm pouring a nice whiskey and having a nostalgic one man and his dog party this now lovely Sunday am. Thanks again eh.
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The small bit of information I find are of Asian audiophiles (wrong language for me) with them in their homes. I have SET amplifiers.
Sorry, I realize this thread is about the Everest model, but I attemp to find information anywhere I can :) |
@ Isochronism, Ok, I made a mistake!, your speakers are not monitors, LOL!, your speakers are pro use folded horn duel driver sub woofers!, wow!, you are going to put them in a house?, party time!, cheers! |
@ ptss, LOL! your speakers are very similar to mine!, yours cross over at 400hz, my speakers cross over at 900hz, there is a variation of the JBL L7 that is shaped exactly like your 250TI speakers!, my variation is the tower narrow width deep cabinets, your drivers even look alot like mine!Both your speakers and mine are 30hz to 27khz!,The still points ss ultra footers under mine, and the cables give me the sound you described earlier!, LOL!, my speaker cables list price 8ft pair $24,000.00 and the i/c list price for 1-meter that I have is $14,000.00,, of course I did not pay these prices!, however, I am shocked we have similar speakers!, the footers were $2,000.00 for 8 of them!,, I know all this makes me look like an idiot!, believe me when I say this!, The sound is way beyound what my speakers were designed to do!, I also have the omega jumpers on the speakers that are 10", the jumpers alone was a profound improvement for my speakers!, my speakers are 4 way bi-amp speakers!remember,I said, there is two different makes of cabinets of the JBL L7 speakers, one make is exactly like yours!, cheers! |
@ Isochronism, Hi,Are your JBL speakers the monitors I have seen before?, fellas, I love JBL speakers, I wished I had A pair like Kiddmann!, that gentleman is truly blessed to have a pair of speakers like that!, and the cool thing is he knows alot about the everest line!, can any body elaborate on the 66000 speakers?, I am sorry, I have not had a chance to listen to them yet. Happy listening! |
@ Ptss, Hi, What year are your speakers?,I have heard wonderful things about your model JBL speakers,Do you care to elaborate on them?, cheers! |
Audiolabrynth that's great.Happy listening. |
I own a pair of JBL 4550 (BKA) complete system that I am waiting until I move to implement. |
My Hat Is off to kiddmann as well, People do not respect JBL now a days, I ask them why?, they do not know, they have not listened to the latest new JBL speakers!, for that matter, the older ones as well!,I love watching the shock on their faces when they here a good pair of JBLs with the correct set-up on them!, and the correct resonance control on them as well, Kudos to JBL! |
@ ptss, Thankyou,For the info,I appreciate the info, I do not have any questions on the L7 speakers thou,I believe they may be toped out with what they can do?, not to sound crazy or nothing, please forgive me, these speakers with what I have done to them and what I use on them allready give me the sound you described in your post to me, thankyou PTSS, cheers! |
@ Kiddmann,, Again I really like what you have to say about the JBL 67000, which I did not know you have!, exactly when did the 67000 speaker come out?,I wished I had what I call stupid money to get a pair!, I am targeting the 66000?, are they worth having? are their brightness issues?, none of my equipment is bright at all!,I was talking about a used pair of 66000 of course!,Thankyou Kiddmann, cheers! |
Guys, a public thank you to Kiddman who very kindly took the time to provide deeper insight into my question of the Salon 2's vs JBL 6700's. He allowed me to appreciate it's the JBL 6700 are my target to replace the JBL 250Ti's that have served me so well. He's one of those guys who make this forum so great for us- the rare breed of music loving audiophiles.
My hat is off to Kiddman. |
Audiolabrinth. Sounds like your JBL's make the music come alive. My 250 Ti's do the same.
I made a number of mods to the Ti's that elevated their sound to an entirely new level of music making.
If you would like to improve yours I'm happy to share some ideas-feel free to ask. The first easiest one to try is to find visually acceptable 50 pounds of mass for the top. You can experiment using some protection for the top (a thick mag, say architectural digest) and weight lifting weights will do(they distribute the load with much going over the walls, not just in the center of the top). This should tighten your sound providing additional detail and microdynamics and more intimacy. I hope you like it. |
Dave_72. My comments to you a while back meant to say
heavily modified (courtesy some expert advice from the designer) JBL 250 Ti's of 1985 (with the great xover).
My revisions were to provide delicacy and nuance, which the speakers then did in spades confirming the excellent design by that gentleman from JBL, Greg Timbers. (Surgery and nerve damage have kept me form earlier reply). |
As for the 67000 Everest, that is what I have. Yes, it is better than 66000. Cleaner, tighter, deeper, lower distortion bass. Clearer lower mids, greater transparency and ability to unravel multiple sounds/instruments in the midrange. Smoother in the brightness range.
Being in the industry, going to many shows, and havig had many many speakers, electronics, turtnables, etc., I stay away from statements like "this single thing is BEST", as often that is not clear and often there are several that could be called "best available" in any category.
I wish I could tell you how many customers, without hearing my system, say "you should hear your product in my system, I guarantee you have NEVER heard what it can do..."
Invariably, if they get the chance to visit they are humbled, and end up often changing to what I am using. The moral: nobody can ever imagine hearing something something better than the best they have heard UNTIL they hear it!
So, while I will not crow "the Everest 67000 is the best speaker in the world," I will say that it is one of the greats, and that is a very small group indeed. |
My bad! I meant, the everest dd 67000 speakers!, not 77000! sorry fellas, they are awsome!, cheers! |
Oh, Btw,I have the hook up on the Tara cables that will beat eany brick and mortar dealers sale!, Pm me if you guys want to try some cables that are revolutionary with JBL speakers, especially the everest line!, cheers! |
@ Kiddman, I loved what you had to say about the JBL Everest 66000 speakers!, JBL just introduced the everest 77000 speakers! you may not believe this!, IMHO, they are even better than the 66000 speakers, I am a huge JBL fan!, JBL high-end audio speakers are in my opinion, like you said, one of the best available speakers today!, Just like the 60s and 70s and early 90s!, I believe most speakers are pure over priced and over hyped!, I have a pair of JBL L7 speakers with ss ultra still points under them to make the speakers more inert!, you would flip out if you heard these speakers on the Taralabs omega gold speaker cables that I have on them and the Taralabs zero gold I/C on a krell 700cx amp with Ayon cd-2s direct to the amp!, these speakers are 4 way bi-amp speakers!, I have the Taralabs omega jumpers on them as well, IMHO!, the speakers are 30hz to 27khz! mated with them still points, Its crazy good!, If I had stupid money, I would buy the new JBL everest 77000 speakers!, you guys need to hear those for sure!,, Taralabs flagship cables and JBL work great together! Happy listening! |
You're welcome! Yeah, that is basically true as well. I see, so you have a lot of inside info. That's cool. |
Thank you Dave_72. Nice of you to comment.
So much misinformation in audio, I often think that it is the most baloney-ridden, charlatan-filled hobby I've ever had. I just want to get some realistic info out there. Truth be told, I'm a long time veteran of the industry, so it is not just a hobby. |
I agree with the above. You really nailed it, Kiddman. |
