Ethernet Cables, do they make a difference?

@grm

Please accept my apology for the off-topic communication. 

clearthink - And that is why one of the loudest voices in this specific forum for some kind of valid testing required IN ADVANCE agreements with lawyers and a $25K USD wager because he is "owed" that by us yes they think the world owes them!

Beautiful in Long Island NY USA... summertime.... any time.....

clearthink - What do you mean by ordinary speaker wire? I do not actually know weather or not I can detect it on reversed direction or not.....

Please refer to the scientific double blind test thread, with posts beginning from 03-10-2018 6:55pm
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/scientific-double-blinded-cable-test

geoffkait - The blind test scam.

By all means, YOU propose the test methodology. I'll then decide go or no go. All reasonable replies considered. 😎

geoffkait - What are ya gonna do if I don’t reply? Whack me?

I mentioned "all reasonable replies considered". I unintentionally neglected to mention all unreasonable replies will be ignored. 🙄

@geoffkait

Reminder.... you have yet to call jinjuku 📞

Caution.... he is wise to your witchcraft 💀

I'm going to listen to some music now while I await further replies. Amy > Bob > Amy Bob.... 😀

clearthink - I propose a double-blind test to be conducted in public and designed here in this group........I have been specifically instructed by the Moderators to not provide it to you at this time.

You are very much aware of the correct protocol in which to handle this matter, so as to avoid any further moderator "instructions". 

That said, by all means, the blind test can be designed herein this group. Have at it. When you and the group are satisfied, submit it for my consideration.

Once I accept it, conducting said test will be in public. I have already contacted a reputable audio shop (on Long Island NY). 

clearthink - It is apparent that the Moderators have reconsidered they're position regarding you're $25K challenge so let's keep it all in public there is nothing no longer to fear! TYhe blind test should be done with an ABX comparator or an equivalent device they're a a number of these if you have already arranged with an audio dealer to participate in this test it is possible they already have one why don't you ask them and report back.

I agree with ABX test. Please confirm the parameters of the ABX test conform to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test and that you agree to 95% confidence level (25 trials). In other words, please confirm you can audibly detect with 95% confidence that ordinary speaker wire is or is not reversed.

I shall then reach out to you and the audio dealer. 

clearthink - There are 100’s of posts in that thread just tell us hear what you mean by "ordinary speaker wire" and if you are open to other participants in the challenge perhaps willing to meet your $25K USD to attract more participants.

@clearthink

No need for you to continually write "$25K USD". I think everyone knows by now 😆

By the way, at the rate we’re going, I’ll need to tack on interest. 😅

To your question about ordinary speaker wire, refer to this article and search for "ordinary".

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Basically this means you and I can walk in to home depot and ask the rep for wire to fix a table lamp. Something like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pyle-18-Gauge-High-Quality-Speaker-Zip-Wire-50/20551674?wmlspartner=wlpa&...

geoffkait - Anyone who agrees to your terms would have to be even more naive than you appear to be. I bet you have never done a blind test in your life.

Actually I have performed blind testing. It really isn’t as overly complicated as you make it out to be, especially if the goal is merely to be honest with oneself. By this I mean there really is no need to prove anything. A simple "demonstration" of your hearing ability (or lack thereof) is sufficient.

Besides, I’m not one who claims the impossible. 😂

EDIT:

@geoffkait

You didn't write "no thank you". 😏

clearthink - And you want me to compare this cheap inferior wire not made to audio purposed for $25K USD to what cable another one from your Home Depot store?

@clearthink -

I understand you are now attempting to "save face" by pretending you have misunderstood what it is you and I have been discussing.

Ask yourself why have I insisted on lawyers, a contract and an escrow account. It is to avoid any misunderstanding by clarifying the details in writing and be in a position to enforce the release of funds (if and when we arrive at that point).

That said, the answer to your question is "no". The idea is not to compare the ordinary wire to something else. It is to compare it to itself, once its orientation has been changed. You know, reversed. This means plus/minus polarity is the same, however, the ends of the wire that are on the amp in test "a" are subsequently attached to the speaker terminals in test "b". Also, the ends of the same wire that are on the speaker in test "a" are attached to the amp terminals in test "b". Therefore, whatever the wire, there can be only one spool of it involved. From the spool we shall derive the rest of whatever wiring is required (likely 6 sets).

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to *reliably* determine that you are hearing a difference between test "a" and test "b" (i.e. know whether or not the wire orientation is/was or is/was not reversed).

See the following response to Geoff, which addresses *reliably*.

geoffkait - 25 trials? Are you crazy? That’s a lot more trials than even The Amazing Randi demanded. And he never lost a blind test challenge. Why? Because nobody can sit there and pay close attention for 25 trials. Not even for ten trials. Gimme a break. What a ripoff! If the differences are of the subtle variety nobody can pick the correct one many times in a row. That’s the scam. Capish?

@geoffkait

I agree in principal that listener fatigue can influence the test. The wiki article I’ve indicated indicates "QSC recommended that no more than 25 trials be performed". Twenty five is fair. There needs to be a high enough number (25) and high enough confidence level (95%) to ensure the person under test is not simply "guessing" their way through it. Please forgive me for not wanting to give my money away.

Keep in mind, it remains theoretically possible that regardless of however many tests are involved, the person under test can guess them all correctly. Also, as I’ve pointed out many times, I can tell the difference between Amy > Bob regardless of however many times you play them, regardless of how quickly or slowly the duration between the songs are, regardless of the test type, regardless of time of day, temperature and ANY other circumstance. Therefore, those who claim a "major" and "not so subtle" difference when the impossible is stated, realistically should also be able to demonstrate such claim under any condition. Further, because it is conceivable the person under test can guess correctly or in fact can demonstrate the impossible, there is a chance I would loose. This is a chance I am willing to take. Capiche?

EDIT:

I forgot to mention that if anyone is unhappy with the terms, they are at liberty to decline and write "no thank you". I do recall my writing on more than one occasion, "there is no obligation" to prove anything.

@clearthink - As I have said from the very beginning of our many communications regarding this topic I am not sure that I could detect such a difference and in fact have never on any occassion either in this forum or elsewhere made the claim that I could detect such a difference...

@clearthink

Given what you are (now) indicating there is nothing further for you and I to communicate to one another regarding any aspect of this matter. Kindly consider the matter completely closed.

EDIT:

You didn’t write "no thank you". 😏

clearthink - Please explain your fascination with wire obtained from Wal-Mart that is not designed for use in Music Reproduction Systems and why this wire in particular should be the wire you employ in your $25,000 USD listening challenge.

@clearthink
I appreciate your seeking my opinion, but I’ll opt to not respond.

clearthink - Well what you write hear is obviously a very much response to my questions even though you evaded it so I will ask you then given this change on your behalf are you withdrawing your offer....

@clearthink

I'm withdrawing to deal with you, specifically. 😐

clearthink - Of course it is your absolute and undeniable right to exclude me from your $25,000 USD offer, which only leaves the remaining question of weather this is an offer you would consider extending to other interested parties.

Suffice it to say that any interested party knows the appropriate communication channel in which to reach me and find out 🤑

clearthink - I have now shown.....

To whom? 🤣

markinsantamonica - In short answer, it is simply not physically possible for your ethernet cables to make a difference in sound quality.

+1

And that is true, even when you *reverse* it. 🤣

jinjuku - So are moderators allowing monetary inducement now? If so I would like to repost my offer.

@jinjuku

I wouldn’t know the answer to your question. However, if your question is legitimate, it would seem to me the correct channel of communication would be to the audiogon support email address. At least, to start your inquiry. 🤔 😀

Invariably, I am able to detect the sincerity or lack thereof of a person by virtue of their actions, or inaction, as the case may be. 😇 😎

EDIT:
🤑

geoffkait - Whaddya know, there are two Mafioso scammers here on this thread. What are the odds? Fuggedaboudit.

Would this qualify as number three?  🤣
https://www.machinadynamica.com/

kosst_amojan - And Clearthink, how did you come up with that name?

🤣

cleeds - Perhaps that was your offer. The proposal to which I refer required a $25,000 advance payment and agreement crafted by an attorney for the supposed "protection" of the listener.

You should be a politician. You neglected to mention "escrow". That ends your argument  😎

jinjuku - I think a highly credible audiophile is one that is able to validate their hearing in an intellectually honest manner.

+1

And as I've stated elsewhere, that means a blind test. You know, Amy > Bob > Amy > Bob.

cleeds - ...But they were met by the forum's self-proclaimed objectivists with some odd preconditions, including a $25,ooo wager and agreements prepared by attorneys for "protection.....

What's odd about asking to handle the matter privately? Maybe you expect that by posting on the forum, others will pay once you loose  🤣

geoffkait -  Could this thread possibly get any stupider?

Only as you continue to post.

jbny - I am more interested to hear why those who are hearing a difference in the sound of their files via Ethernet cabling think it is happening?

A *possible* explanation is a delusional episode. Another possible reason is that the listener is merely dishonest - with themself.

geoffkait - >>>>>>>>Poodleman, we thank you for your almost grammatically correct explanation. One assumes the high schools on Long Island are a little bit behind the US norm.

Spelling and grammar was never my forte. I leave that for my attorneys 😄

I erred in a previous post as well. I meant to enter "lose" and instead wrote "loose". At least I can admit when I make a mistake. This is a quality you - geoffkait - find it beyond yourself to embrace. 😪 To err is human. To hear a difference when ordinary speaker wire is reversed is inhuman. 👍🏻

jimf42 - it doesn’t matter whether or not there is an objective change as long as you perceive a difference.

And this is why blind testing is very fair and extremely useful in these matters. It allows the listener who is subjected to the test to "guess" or otherwise "perceive" a difference, irrespective of whether or not there truly is one. I’ve stated numerous times - in response to objections that blind testing doesn’t prove anything - that what I’ve proposed (Amy > Bob, repeat) is NOT meant to prove anything. Instead, it is meant to *demonstrate* your ability to *reliably* hear what is impossible to hear, and what YOU claim YOU can hear.

💰

EDIT:

It’s also the reason folks attempt to "save face" once they clearly think-it-over. 🤐

geoffkait - ”A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from witchcraft.” 

Regarding the blind test to hear an audible difference when ordinary wire is reversed, you could bring along your witchcraft, voodoo and even perform a seance just prior to the test. It won't help you 🤣 🤑

@geoffkait

Your previous (05-04-2018 8:33am) response is well stated, genuine and therefore worthy of a meaningful response on my part.

While the points you have stated are certainly valid considerations, there is no obligation to prove anything or subject oneself to any kind of test. The blind test I’ve been advocating will always include some degree of *chance*. Everything involves chance. There is a chance you wouldn’t wake up tomorrow because "tomorrow" isn’t guaranteed to anyone.

Each person has a different "tolerance" of chance that he/she is willing to take. This is why the terms of the test must be *mutually agreed and then bound contractually* to the satisfaction of both parties. Otherwise, no test. Simple.