Equal $$ for Phono OR Streaming?

@sbank I have discussed these various user experience factors with my friend and he has  an equal appetite for either way of listening to music. What he would like to know is whether he should spend his money on digital or analog in the four to $6000 range. The rest of it will follow and he is open to it and he is going into it with his eyes wide open. Thank you for the your nice comment about the thread.

My friend inclines towards pop, rock, classical, and jazz.

I’m hoping to keep some factors outside the core question -- excluding cost, availability of content, fussiness or convenience, etc. He has funds for those things and has time. He considers this a hobby and does not demand it necessarily be as easy as possible. So, this is a question about what-it-would-take to reach a roughly equivalent sonic outcome using the competing hardware. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

@testpilot Good answer to the question, "What should he do while waiting for answers on the forum."

@lalitk  Thanks. Thanks! This question got going in part by the discussion around 33:10, here: https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/02/09/how-do-you-budget-for-your-hifi-the-occasional-podcast-ans...

@millercarbon No change of meaning. I said he "wants to finish out the main elements of the system" and has "$4-6k to spend...on either a phono stage/TT combo OR a DAC/streamer combo." The qualifier "excluding" was meant to convey that the core of the decision for him excludes the other elements -- records, streaming services, etc. I'm glad you grasped that because your suggestion is specific and useful. And "vastly superior" sounds, um, vastly superior.

@lal
I need to double check models, but he has, I think, MA352 Integrated and Spendor D7s.

Right, I heard him make that comment about the superiority (to him) of analog, and I know there are people on both sides of this question.

To avoid the which is better debate, I am trying to delimit it to his price range for the central gear. As I said, he's open to buying records, the rituals, etc. He wants to know what core gear is capable of within the $4-6k limits.

Lots more good replies. Thank you. Many here want to help him with the decision, overall, but because he's indicated a willingness to go in either direction (knowing full well what that implies) the core question -- about the sonic quality achievable with *either* $4-6k for streaming/dac vs. phono -- really is *the* question. And yes, other "requirements" are helpful to know, but it does not seem like the core question is unanswerable without the bigger picture, and many here seem to agree.

@feldmen4  Glad you liked the description. Not only do I see this in my kids, I see it competing within me. Warring impulses -- slow vs. quick. I have a Node 2i. Because I'm on the verge on spending on room treatment stuff, I'm a bit shy about upgrading but I've taken note of your experience!

@mapman  Sonic quality is somewhat subjective but not totally, right? I mean, if you did a poll asking people if they liked articulate bass vs. boomy/fuzzy bass, or blurry, narrow sound stage vs. clear and wide sound stage, etc. we'd see huge majorities voting for the same thing. We share biological and cultural habits (growing up together, interacting, social) so subjectivity is always there but it's typically much less dramatic than supposed.

Thanks for the input, all. I will pass it along.

Amazing diversity of opinion. I will share this whole thread with him so he can learn. Thank you!

Analog fans such as @millercarbon say analog "is off the charts" better and @robertbrook says that digital is for people listening at lower volumes or not really paying attention; if you the music gets the attention and volume level characteristic of (his phrase) a "true audiophile," analog is a necessity. Several here list ways to do analog well within the price parameters.

Others, including long time vinyl fans, see digital as better, just as good, or nearly as good, especially with the price constraints. E.g., @jrw1971 estimates at least $10-15k for analogy to beat great Dacs. (I also haven’t started the Wire. But I know, I know: probably the best show, really, ever!) Several see digital catching up in the next few years.

A bunch of great ideas in the "both category." @jjss49’s amazing setups pose a serious challenge, as they contain excellent gear within the limits described (closer to $6k). He doesn’t weigh in on which is sonically better, but he calls digital "excellent" so that seems to imply that it’s at least close enough.

As @feldmen4 (Matt) points out, the limits of the question are hard to abide, as many point out the additional costs to analog are magnitudes greater (for content acquisition, primarily) and I like guy-incognito’s description that a vinyl collection can become a "walled garden." In some ways, I attribute my own ability to listen to music in a focused and deep way to the limits placed on me by by record collection growing up -- hard to get new albums, as a kid (expense, someone had to drive me to a store, I didn’t even know what was available until I got to the store). As a result, I listened over and over to what I had and learned to listen in a way different than many do now, with the ability to skip from tune or artist to artist. That said, if I was growing up today, I don’t think I’d be able to stand being walled in that way. Once you’ve travelled...

P.S. A third option is CD’s, which as the Audiophilac points out, can sound quite amazing with a good DAC and transport and CD’s are often very very inexpensive. I suppose CD’s don’t compete, sonically, for most here advocating streaming, but my guess is that a great transport/DAC combo is very easily available for well under $6k.

@jjss49 Your point is well taken and the effort required for phono needs to be seriously sized up, as you say. 

@jjss49

streamed music (using proper tidal, qobuz or other suitable lossless service) is absolutely able to deliver music at a superb quality into a well chosen downstream system ... to a point where the emotion-stirring nature of well recorded content will come through to thrill and move the listener

there is no doubt in my mind this is the case with presently available gear, and at quite a reasonable cost

I absolutely agree for my own ears and sonic tastes. I’m 56 and I grew up with turntables, and I’ve listened to them through the early 2000s. I’ve heard great ones. The comments by the analog-is-the-only-way people make me very curious to see what I may have overlooked (about what I’m able to discern) but the overall phono-path is too burdensome for me.

That said, the system I’ve built over the past year has transfixed me at times; I get completely lost in the music, hear tremendous things, and don’t find myself with a "grass is always greener" bugaboo gnawing at me in my listening position. I heeded advice about getting an R2R DAC and while I’m curious about how "lowly" my Node 2i is, I do recognize the warnings about how quickly streaming technology (in contrast to DACs) is evolving. If there is one thing which shows me I’m not "done" with digital, is the occasional DSD files I’ve heard. In a few years, after I’ve dialed in my room or settled into a new one, a much better streamer (and DAC, possibly) is on the short list, but until the room’s impact is addressed, it’s not my priority. My friend may very well read some of the more economical suggestions here and decide that savings should not be spent on trying to do *both* digital and analog, and should instead go toward the room.

@jperry  Thanks for your comments and I'm glad for the vibe in this thread. Your suggestion for my friend resonates for me, and I'm glad he'll have your comment along with the others to help him with his inquiry.

Recent posters, the general life advice is appreciated, but he really wants an answer to the question as posed to make his decision. If you don't think it's answerable as posed, he'd appreciate knowing why.

The ps audio unit is $6k. Is it a DAC only or does it include a streamer? The top of the price range is $6k, so this is a make or break question relating to that suggestion. Thanks.

@speakermaster  
Interesting. Do you have an opinion on the question of which in that price range would sound better?

@jjss49  Thanks for experience with P.S. Audio. For $6k, new, I think my friend would rather get both streamer and DAC without needing addition hardware, software, or other complications. Pass on this product.

@jpwarren58 My friend is almost 50 and has a background as a music major who became a neuropsychologist. Why do "you" ask? Does age have a bearing on the sonic quality (perhaps because of hearing loss?)

@kennyc  Thanks for your answer.

@jpwarren58  No worries. He's too busy and I'm the one much more into this hobby, but he cares about sound. Just cannot invest the time in the details and he trusts me -- and I trust the best opinions on this forum. All good. And thanks for your judgment.