Entry level recommendations???


So, I've been in and out of analog audio for the past 2 years, and this is due to junk equipment and space constraints in my apartment. I've recently (as of a few days ago) replaced my 1970's Pioneer SX-434 with a Denon AVR 791 that I'm quite happy with. Now, like I said due to my space constraints (and lets be honest, my lack of funds), it is a home theater deal and my living room is my media center, with my computer, my cable, xbox and PS3 running through it, as well as my analog set up. Overall, I'm quite happy with the whole thing, and I feel it's a great "bang for buck" type situation. The only thing I'm unhappy with is the fact that since upgrading, the shortcomings of my TT are really shining through, and my MP3's sound better than my TT does (I'm sure my phono stage isn't helping much either...some 50 doller Audio Technica thing.)

My question is this: Could you guys make a few suggestions for some entry-level TT's and also a phono stage? I plan on using MM carts for the time being, and am looking to spend in the range of 300-400 for each, as that is around the same price I paid for both my receiver and my speakers (Epos ELS 3) So I'd like to keep them around the same quality level. Used, new...doesn't matter. I'd like the best bang for my buck, as I'm not liquid enough to be spending thousands on this sort of thing. Thanks!!!

Also, I know this is the analog forum, but since I'm already posting a message...Any ideas on a decent sound card for my PC would also be greatly appreciated!

-Chuck
128x128chuckelator
In your shoes, I wouldn't spend equal money on the table and phono stage. The cheapest ($150 or so used) phono stages can be very acceptable sounding as a stop-gap. I'd put the bulk of the money into the deck, as that'll give you a good foundation to work from - upgrading the cart and phono stage down the road. The lowest end dec will only take you so far, and you'll most likely have to replace the deck if you upgrade anything around it to hear differences.

I'd be a bit Leary of used decks, but that's just me. People buy and sell them all the time, so I know I'm in the minority on that one. Too many things can go wrong in packing, shipping, set-up and breakdown IMO. Then you're at the mercy of the seller's honesty about cartridge life and wear. For me to buy one from anyone other than a local dealer, it would have to be in the original box and packed they way it came from the factory.

Not sure of exact prices, but I'd look into a Rega RP-1, or see if anyone has a P2 left around. I'm pretty sure the P2 was discontinued, but maybe not.

I'm not a fan of the Music Hall decks, but the MF 2.2 is a good deck. I own and really like the Pro-Ject decks. They're made in the same factory as Music Hall decks and share a lot of critical parts, yet for some reason, several dealer's I know have nothing but negative things to say about them. They all dropped them and carry Pro-Ject, and praise Pro-Ject's track record. I think it has to due with some design flaws.

I own a Pro-Ject 1Xpression that I upgraded the platter and cart on, and added a Speed Box to over the course of a year or two. Couldn't be happier, but then again if I had it to do all over again, I'd buy a Rega P3.

If you're looking for a solid deck that'll stay with you for a while, you can tinker with it, and it'll show improvements every time, buy a Rega. If you want to set it and forget it, and vinyl will be a change of pace rather than a major source, a Pro-Ject may make more sense.

I've owned the Debut III and 1Xpression. The 1Xpresion is far better and easily worth the extra cash. The Debut doesn't do much better than the stock cart; the 1Xpression easily showed me an improvement with my Dynavector 10x5, which cost almost as much as the deck itself.

Just a few thoughts.
Take you at your word that DD's can sound better in which case Audio Technica is a good company.
WOW, thanks for all the info! I was actually considering a Project Debut III to get started with. Luckily I know a dealer who sells them locally... United Home Audio in MD. Aren't they and Jolida one and the same?

To those curious, My current deck is a JVC DD from some time in the 80's...with a low end Audio-Technica cart. It sounds pretty crappy.
The Debut III is a very good deck for the money. I know several people who've owned them, and every one of them upgraded rather quickly. It's not because it's a bad deck, it's just that the tonearm doesn't really do well with a better cartridge. The Xperssion has a far better tonearm that'll handle a few steps up the ladder.

But it must be said that the Xpression's stock Sumiko Oyster cart is garbage. Plan on scrapping it almost immediately for something else. The dealer I bought my Dynavector cart literally thought it was broken when I brought the deck in. After putting the cart under a microscope, he said "this cartridge isn't shot, it just really sucks!" That wasn't a sales pitch, as he's earned my trust.

There are some excellent carts out there that won't cost an arm and a leg. Ortofon and Goldring come to mind. Grados do to, but they have hum issues with Pro-Ject's and a few others in my experience.

Sorry if that's getting side tracked. In a nutshell, if you're considering an Xperssion, budget an extra $100 - $150 for a suitable cart. But again, the Xpression easily justifies the extra cost over the Debut.

The Music Hall 2.2 is an interesting deck that's a bit cheaper and comes with a far better stock cartridge than the Xperssion. I know a few people who've been happy with the 2.2 for quite a while.
Hi Chuckelator

You are lucky to have a dealer that has both the Pro-Ject Debut III and Jolida products so close. You can audition and possibly try them out in your set-up without having to buy and then re-sell if it doesn't sound good. I believe Jolida.com is in MD as well so they could potentially help you out as well.

Any idea as to what AT cart you have? The reason I ask is that I found that a TT I'm trying to fix up has an Audio Technica AT10 cart and I read that even if it is a budget cart one can change the stylus to make it sound very good.

It could be a potentially good way to save some $ and have decent sound while you are researching things for your vinyl set-up.