Enough SET Power for Rock and Roll


I'm still trying to figure out what SET amp would sound best for Rock and Roll (and other music but especially Rock) on Klipsch Cornwall II speakers (101dB efficiency) in a room about 18x13 (with kind of medium acoustics - not live, not totally dead.) On a Marantz 2230 (which sounds very good, surprisingly good for being ~35 years old and 30 watts of solid state) I found that when I crank up the Rock and Roll on the Cornwalls I'm listening from about 89dB to 97db, but frankly if I wasn't worried about clipping or blowing out the speakers or receiver I could probably enjoy an occassional 100 dB :) - but if I have to live at 97 dB and below I could. (Measurements made with a Radio Shack meter set on fast, C weighting - taken from 1 meter away from the speakers, and also at the main seating position which is about 10-11 feet from the speaker plane.)

From many posts here and over on AudioAsylum it sounds like a 45 SET amp would sound great but might not have enough oomph - although that isn't 100% certain. It seems that a 2A3 SET amp would have a better chance of handling the loud music and the "complexities?" of Rock (and orchestra music) vs. say simple instrumentals and vocals. Next up would be a 300B SET, more power but some people seem to think it gives away some of the "magic" of the 2A3 and especially the 45. It isn't so clear to me from reading the various posts how any of these tube types do on the low end; I think low end (reasonably deep and tight) is needed to do Rock and Roll well - but so is good midrange and highs, so it's a balance, of course.

What do you think, more power and listen loud with ease, ie go with a 300B, or can a 2A3 or possibly a 45 do it all? Or is it possible that SET just can't do Rock and Roll seriously with 101db speakers in a 18x13 rom? In which case, next up is what kind of tube amp? If SET makes sense, I'd like to give it a try but I don't want to push physics or the budget too hard with experiments that aren't likely to work.

Thanks!
hi_hifi

Showing 6 responses by charles1dad

I also use the Coincident Frankenstein MK2 amplifier and their 8 watts per channel(300b) will be surplus power for your needs. My room is 14x26x8 feet and opens into an ajoining 17x 24 room. My speakers are 94db efficient, yet if desired the amp can easily drive to sound levels of 95 to 100db with ease and no hint of strain. Given your speakers and smaller space you should`nt have any problems. I can`t speak to other 300b tube amps given the differences in transformer quaility, driver tube choice and part selection. Best of luck.
Gwng8,
To answer your concern honestly, yes the Frankenstein amps can do 'very' good bass. It depends on your speaker(load characteristics,efficiency,crossover type etc...) this is really the key. It ultimately won`t match the more powerful Dragon(211 tubes in push-pull). There`re always some degree of trade offs. The choice of 300b tube makes a significant difference in the bass quality also.

The Frankenstein has a superb power supply, over speced transformers and uses the very potent,high current 6em7 as the input/driver tube. It`s a exceptionally capable amp'if' matched to the appropriate speaker. I`m using the marvelous Takatsuki 300b tube and it drives my Coincident speakers(94db and 14 ohm load)with utter ease and control. I hope you get the chance to hear the amp with a proper speaker.
Regards,
I just think people hear in all manner of different ways. At live venues I can readily realize the volume has increased without having to engage in the talk test. Good discussion.
Charles
Jet,
In all honesty I'm not a fan of loud music ,recorded or live. A few weeks ago my wife and I went to a bar featuring live electric blues. It was just too loud and unenjoyable for the entire group of us. I know some like it cranked up this way and more power to them. I visit jazz venues far more often (usually unamplified) 95-100db is still loud. I don't need or want this volume at home on a regular basis. Personal preference for sure.
Charles
Hi Jet,
I respect and appreciate the many contributions of Atmasphere as I know you do as well. I do agree with your comments written above regarding SET loudness/distortion. In addition to my 8 watt 300b SET I also have a 40 watt EL 34 push pull(PP) and a 100 watt 6550 PP amplifiers. I use all 3 on my Coincident 94 db (14 ohm load) speakers. 95 to 100 db is loud IMO and sounds loud with all three amplifiers. That SPL isn't perceived as any louder with the 8 watt SET. The SET is my preferred choice due to its superior tone, emotional engagement, musical pace and flow. It's just more natural and resolved/transparent. Jet our experiences are very similar and this includes a broad genre of music.
Charles
Hi Jet,
You consistently provide meaningful thoughts and perspective. I understand what you reasoning is for less frequent forum posting.  This endeavor of  assembling high quality audio systems is absolutely a very personal undertaking.  It is a true reflection of how we hear and react to the music we enjoy. Naturally our desires and goals will vary across a pretty wide spectrum. 

This explains the enormous number of options available to us in the form of audio products,. Amplifiers of many different topologies, circuits and power. All manner of speaker categories to choose amongst,  same plethora of choices for sources as well.  It's no wonder why we all have different systems that vary in individual components and obviously sound/music reproduction outcomes. How could it be any other way?

Jet when you write that perhaps only 5 of 20 listeners may like rock music heard in your system, that's okay. The only relevant point is that the sound is presented as you like it. Once you've determined what type of sound you want the next step is to go about achieving it. This is the key to long term home audio  listening contentment. I believe that you are there. 
Charles