End Game Turntable suggestions


Hello all, looking for insights to help me narrow down to some core choices; I am open to new or preowned. My system details can be seen under my profile.

In summary I have significantly expanded my vinyl collection and as of now I am looking to purchase an end game turntable appropriate for my setup. As you can see I use Mola Mola Kaluga Monos, and I really like the Zesto Pre and Phonostages. I find the class D/tube pre combination very pleasing. 

I would appreciate suggestions for around $5-8K (table + arm), new or used. I will have separate budget for cartridge. One preferred option (but not must-have) is universal voltage, as I may move the unit to Europe later. My current vintage turntable (Project Perspective) is 22 years old, and while I don't know how to compare to something really amazing, I can say that my setup is lacking detail and bass. The tonearm is terrible to keep aligned. Based on visits to Axpona and Cap Audio Fest and other research, I am thinking of a few in my budget, but will really value your suggestions of other brands:

- Origin Live Sovereign

- VPI Signature

- SAM Sinner

- Thorens TD 1601 (semi automatic)

Visual appeal is important to me (which is why Technics 1200 is not on my list despite great reviews everywhere). I love the idea of set it and forget it DD tables, but unfortunately mostly out of my budget (eg VPI HW-40 going for abt 11K used)....

Sorry for the long post but my hope is this background and help solicit good suggestions. Thanks

 

musicmatters1206

As for cost, as a Board Machined for a TT Chassis my last purchase worked out, (inclusive of Cutting Up the full size board by a professional cutting service) to £100 per Board Cut at 500mm x 400mm x 25mm delivered to the Door. I was gifted a CNC Cut Out, for the Chassis, but this can be achieved in a variety of ways, if one has the confidence in their skills and correct tools.

Granite in the Past has far exceeded this cost when produced as a Laminated Tiered Structure with a Tidying up to the aesthetic. The owned Slate as the Raw Material with a Highly Polished Fascia, as a salvaged/repurposed item, cost some time ago approx’ £70 for a piece large enough to do Two Plinths as a Single Layer or one as a Laminated Two Tier Structure. Add the Cutting and aesthetic work to this to tidy it up and the cost will exceed the cost of a P'holz Plinth.  

These Stone Materials are no longer wanted, they are definitely Superseded as a Plinth Material. There is real benefit in not having to arrange for a Logistics Plan to move them, I am still experiencing this with Corian and it is not healthy on a Getting Old Bones Body. P'holz is a much friendlier material for such purposes.

Where P’holz has a further advantage is that a Thickness of only 10mm produces all the desirable measurements referred to in earlier made references.

Adding Tiers or using a Thicker Board does not show any alterations to the Measurements that suggest there is a further improvement to the Damping and Frequency Data recorded.

As said in a previous post, I know one individual who produced a P’holz Composite Plinth, which was designed to have a much increased Mass using a material that has proven through measurement Damping Properties. This Plinth when produced was in use as the main Plinth. After a period of time and when eventually having produced a P’holz Only Plinth. The comparison took place of the Two Plinths with the same Modified DD TT>Tonearm>Cart’ and Support Structure.

The Composite was proved to be not as attractive to their preferences and returned to a Naked P’holz design.

This individual now has Two different versions of Modifications carried out on the same Model DD TT, which are both mounted in P’holz Plinths. The idea was to keep one TT as original, but the TT in original was not tolerated any longer after experiences the impression made from the first modification.

I am the proud owner of a VPI HW 40 and I could not be happier with the table. It is significant, solid, sports a very heavy platter and plinth that add pitch black silence and fabulous low end performance. The 12 inch gimbal fat boy arm is a treat to use and makes my Van den Hull cartridge that much better. I anticipate the direct drive motor will give me trouble and service free performance for as long as I own it. There is no worry there. Plus VPI has been around for over 40 years. They are not going anywhere. If you have the budget it must be in your top two or three considered endgame table options. Good luck with whichever vinyl spinner you land on!

@pindac, it is another lesson that mass alone does not work. Certain materials are more prone to ringing, some are intrinsically better damped. Examples of the later are aluminum and most wood over a certain thickness. Panzerholtz is resin infused plywood. The layers have been dyed for aesthetic reasons. It makes great plinths and could even be used as a sub chassis in a suspended design. My turntable used a 1" thick aluminum sub chassis. I doubt it would sound any different if it were made out of panzerholtz.

Origin designs are fine. Unfortunately, the company has a reputation for bad service. It has come up on this site several times. 

@musicmatters1206 , No, it will not be fun. You will wind up listening to the one you like best and the other will just take up space and money. Put that money into a better turntable and cartridge The very best value in a less expensive table is the Thorens TD1600 followed by the RP10 and then on to the Sotas. If you want the ability to upgrade down the line Sota is an even better choice. The only time you need a second cartridge is to play 78's.  As often as you would play them swapping out the cartridge would be the most efficient way of going about it.

Manufacturing turntables and tonearms is not all that difficult. I have seen several very reasonable home spun units. Making them with intelligent design and aerospace precision is not so easy. This leads to an unfortunate number of enterprises that make rather poor gear. Any company that makes a unipivot arm is suspect. Some, like Clearaudio and Kuzma do it at the low end of their ranges to keep the price down. Some do it because it is child's play to make them. Graham and Basis arms are no longer unipivots they are bipivots. Outboard motors are another point of contention. Turntables with more than one platter are functionally a joke.  More bearings equal more noise. 

I heard a Kuzma Stabi S with the 4 points and it’s is a great combo. And you have a keeper tonearm in case you want to upgrade the tt in the future. 
Also I would look at the EAT turntables as they seem to be very well built. They benefit of the Pro-Ject expertise and factory facilities. Pro-Ject’ s boss is Jozefina Lichtenneger’s husband.