EMT 927 vs. Micro Seiki 5000 or 8000 - different?

Dertonam,

Just to add my 2 cents - turntables owned - Linn, Pink Triangle, Sota, Oracle, Well Tempered, Roksan, Garrard 301 - current turntable used and much preferred is the Final Labs Parthenon - this is like a micro seiki steroids. It is in fact the same turntable used by my friend Warwick Mickell who was the Foreign Correspondent for The Absolute Sound Magazine in the early years.
The key improvements over the Micro's are - solid base ( SPZ some composite alloy/lead ) solid platter ( not a bell ) with inverted bearing, copper mat ( twice the weight of the micto's ), and most importantly the reconstructed ac power generator & thread drive for accurate speed control.
Kitamura the designer was most upset by the TAS review by HP as the turntable was reviewed mounted on an air suspension.
The design wicks energy away from the record and a rigid platform is recommended. The base I use that Kitamura recommended is a plinth of crushed stoned which is highly compressed in a torsion box. I also run the belt on the same plane as the bearing point.
I think no suspension is a key to the design as well.

Raul,

In the case of the high mass Final Audio that I have, I think the key attributes are speed stability. Most suspended table/rubber belts have wow and pitch problems on piano in my experience. I note that many of the high mass designs produced today do not have great power supplies - 20kg platters driven by motors/supplies that look like they couldn't spin a cornflake. As an example of the importance of power supply a friend has a Rega P9 - its key strength compared to the priced competition is timing. Interestingly many years ago when I got my first MIT Reference interconnect there was a bigger improvement using it in the power supply of the Final Lab turntable rather than between pre/power. ( FAR power supply has ac sine wave generator and power amp driving the motor ).

Raul - thanks for feedback. The Final was built in the 70's and early 80's - which means Kitamura was using ac sine wave generator power supply 35 years ago - and yet we are barely seeing this today. There seems to have been much colaboration in Japan in those days. I have also seen various Micro's heavily modified by Final Labs. The 2 versions of the Ginga turntable from Audio Note/Kondo also appears to be built by Final.

Raul/Dertonarm,

One other thing on the power supply on the Final - as well as having separate regulation for 33 & 45 it also has a "torque control". There is definitely an optimum point for sound. With regards to the string drive I cant try a rubber belt as the pulley has a very narrow slot for the string. However the speed is much more stable with surgical silk than others I have tried. The Top Class Audio site has a detailed view of the bearing components and structure of the current Final TT. Its almost identical to mine. The top Melco's would be interesting to hear.

Raul,

Forgot to mention - Final have always done complete bespoke systems. Their cartridge at the time was a rebadged Fidelity research - looks like an FR7. I have both an Ikeda Kiwame and a vintage Dynavector Nova 13D ( Ebony bodied version ) which is due for retipping. Currently using a back up cartridge - Shure V15 type V ( shocking to some I'm sure ).

Raul,

Use to import Martin Logan/Apogee/Conterpoint/Conrad Johnson/Krell/MIT/Kimber/Quicksilver/Sota/Sumiko/Pink Triangle/Proac/Carnegie/Zeta/Alphason/SME and shop was agent for Linn/Roksan/Harbeth/Onix/Musical Fidelity/Townsend plus probably forgotten a few - about 20 odd years ago. Pre digital hence fairly extensive experience on the turntables from that age. Plus heaps of oddball imports for customers such as VTL, Jadis,Dynaudio etc.
Biggest learning from shop - synergy in system particularly analogue is vital and everyone hears differently.

Hi Lewm,

Belt creep is definitely an issue - rubber belts stretch, with string drive you need something that doesn't - cotton stretches badly, I have found surgical silk doesn't at all. My turntable speed never changes so I only check it once a year or so. The only times I've had to adjust it is when I have knocked the potentiometers on the sine wave generator when cleaning.

Lewm -

Please define belt creep. I have no slip and no stretch in the belt. I listen to heaps of classical and piano and in my previous posts I have mentioned that piano music often often lays bare wow and speed instability in turntables which is precisely why I dont do suspended decks, rubber or other stretchy belts and direct drive. But what do you actually mean by belt creep.

Lewm,

No offence at all, always looking to learn & too old to worry. DD's friends have or have had that I have heard many times are the Goldmund Studio ( with custom power supply ) ( 3 of them ) , Kenwood L07D ( 2 of those ), Technics SP10 mk3 ( 2 of these ). The standard L07 laid bare speed instablility in the goldmund. The SP10 Mk 3 is the best I've heard but there is a grain or "chopped up quality" to the sound that I correctly or incorrectly ascribe to DD - dont wish to start that debate up again - just relaying what I've heard.