Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners
Something that does not come up for sale. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eminent-Technology-ET-1-ET-2-Precision-Alignment-Gauge/173996984387?hash=item2883074843:g:qfwAAOSw4y1dVCbE |
Hi Richard - nice to hear from you and thx for that info. Have not been active on the forum the last few months, so the only "luring" going on for me is with a crank bait or spoon. 8^0 Was just telling it like it is. You are the only one I can think of with this arrangement. Now the strange thing for me is that I have no issues putting a record down on a spinning platter, and then a clamp on top. The turntable is designed for this, and the platter is a smaller diameter than the record making it very easy to grip. (Picture the guy on TV flipping pizza dough) - But putting that armtube down on the record, and lifting at the end. One cueing mechanism please, for me. @mruggs2 - The best, smoothest, cueing mechanism I ever used was with the FR64s I used to own. Cheers. |
@ct0517. Chris. are you trying to lure me back here? Removal of the lifter mechanism affords a slight improvement in focus, image precision. I used a foam rubber block mounted on the plinth at the edge of the platter which the cart rested on when parked. And yes, stay away from any dexterity altering substances when using the arm sans lifter. Substituting the carbon fibre goose neck for the aluminium one brings about a similar but larger increase in focus. One does loose some versatility though as it has only one "height" setting and it is of course heavier so lower compliance carts are called for. Cheers . |
^^^^^ Mruggs2 - I haven't ....but....on another note. I am most intrigued by those brave souls who have actually removed the cueing mechanism in its entirety. I only know of one person that has reached this level. R Krebs. The consumption of ? during music can increase bravery, but decreases the dexterity imo, needed to handle the naked armtube (void of linkages), which holds the precious. Or does consumption of ? actually help others calm down ? ************************************ I 'm breaking through I'm bending spoons I'm keeping flowers in full bloom I'm looking for answers From the great beyond REM - the Great Beyond ********************************************* Greetings and Happy July 1, "Canada Day" to everyone. From the True North Strong and....still free. |
Porter Recording have on ebay this auction for their ET 2.0 on a Technics SP10 MKII, with obsidian plinth. Interesting times.... not affiliated with the ad. Good luck to those interested. https://www.ebay.com/itm/283415966095?ul_noapp=true |
Hi Tim (Flemke) Both pieces will add weight to your setup over the Carbon Fiber. (probably not recommended if someone is mounting an ET2 on a Linn LP12) You will be tempted to add the joint (Gooseneck) first (quicker to do), but to do proper "audiophile" observations for us, you should replace the mount first since it cradles "the whole enchilada". Then the Gooseneck 2nd. Doing two changes at the same time in ones system, breaks multiple audiophile rules. But then again, if you are like me right now, just trying to make it past what is remaining of winter with some music; the last thing on your mind, may be to want to mess with your set up. I have the new mount and what I consider a third party aluminum Goosneck, which I acquired if you remember my posts here, by way of New Zealand, courtesy of Richard Krebs. My shiny Gooseneck, was IMO, a sort of inspiration for Bruce to do the Aluminum. I remember he really liked what he saw in the picture of what I sent to him. Mine is a bright silver and it does add bling to the setup if one likes that. I prefer that Bruce kept his aluminum pieces the same color as the rest of the tonearm parts. Then again, I read here on AudioGon somewhere, that someone once posted a question; Why do all these air bearing linear trackers need to look like oil pumping rigs ? He was obviously a bling fan. |
Hi Guys (Gals ?) This popped into my inbox this morning. It is a rare listing for an ET tonearm that started life as 2.0, and was upgraded to 2.5 status. This means it has the bigger bore manifold and larger diameter air bearing spindle. It includes additional options which include single shot wiring. Anyone interested needs to realize that this tonearm will require a suitable air source, able to deliver more than 19.0 psi to allow for a steady 19 psi. As an FYI. It comes with the original aluminum armtube only from the looks of it. The Carbon Fiber and Magnesium armtubes are a better match for the 2.5. Also be aware that Bruce now offers upgrades to the original design which include Solid Aluminum Base Mount, and Gooseneck (replace the CF), and of course the longer I Beam which reduces the weights requirements in half. Not affiliated with this ebay ad. https://www.ebay.com/itm/333098302449?ul_noapp=true Good luck to those interested. |
**** ET2 Yellow Sticky **** Cartridge Setup Guidelines **** Tonearm Version _____ Armwand Version _______ I Beam/Leaf Spring Combo General Guidelines. ******************************************************** Tonearm Version ET 2.0 ___________________________ ET 2.5 Higher Compliance Cart ______________Lower Compliance Cart ******************************************************** Armwand Version Aluminum __________Carbon Fiber _______Magnesium High Compliance ______Medium__________Low Compliance ******************************************************** I Beam - Leaf Springs - (a higher mass cartridge needs more counterweight mass, which in turn needs a stiffer decoupling spring). Single Leaf Spring _____Double LS __________Triple LS ____ Low Mass __________Medium Mass_________High Mass ********************************************************* This info is endorsed by Bruce Thigpen |
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Speaking of removable arm boards and audiophile anxiety: My (now “hybrid”) TNT 6 came with an arm board drilled for a SME V. I was having difficulty getting a blank or predrilled armboard for my ET2, so I went ahead and had VPI drill the SME V board to accept the ET2, SME cutout and all. I was eventually able to source two blank armboards which VPI drilled for the ET2 and for the Syrinx PU3 which I keep “just in case”. Wouldn’t you know it, I was convinced that the arm board with the SME cutout sounded better and actually went back and forth a couple of times with the two arm boards to determine which actually did sound better; PITA. Eventually settled on the new board without the SME cutout simply because it looked so much better 😊. Happy New Year to all! |
considering the obscene amount I paid for the plinth I quickly decided against drilling more holes. What causes more audiophile anxiety ? A) Putting an extra hole into a - let's call it a "creation" or B) Getting the hole position correct. ??? *************************************** Many years ago I made my own plinth (for fun-still have it) out of birch, mdf, some other materials. 50-60 lbs ? I think. A sandwiched block with a cutout for the motor/platter - in this case for an SP10. One of the main lessons I learned from that adventure, is that removable armboards, or arm pillars that swivel, are worth their weight in gold as far as this audio hobby is concerned. The extra work, skill and time that goes into making this option possible, is considerable and definitely not for the hobby person. |
Ketchup, I briefly considered putting the ET-2 on the Garrard but considering the obscene amount I paid for the plinth I quickly decided against drilling more holes. I'll eventually be putting the Delos back on the Garrard and I was never satisfied with the Delos on the ET-2. But it really sings on the Garrard/Ortofon rig, If you decide to try it, let us know what you hear. Cheers, Harry |
@ct0517 Hi Chris, My Denon is the M version. From my reading I believe it did not have a conical stylus but a line contact on a boron cantilever. I'm pretty sure my Denon has been retipped, including cantilever because the chap I bought it from said it had an aluminum cantilever and only 50 hours but was not NOS. The DL-103M is way to old and out of production to have only 50 hours and it had a boron cantilever. The Delos has been resting too long for me to make comparisons with the Denon. I am running it on the Garard 301 through an ARC PH-3 to my CAT SL-1. Compared to the Van den Hul Black Beauty on the VPI. running directly to the CAT the Denon does nothing wrong. It just has a little less. Totally sins of omission. Not quite as much air, extension up top or separation of instruments. Bass extension is very nice. Sound stage not quite as deep. The differences are not large. It is not something one notices if one starts listening on the Denon. It is not until I switch over to the VDH that I hear the difference. But considering the more than 10X price difference the difference in sq is small. And it is just very musical. Re my sub crossover. I don't know when you last looked at my virtual systems but there are other changes since last we chatted. I was running a Sunfire True sub with no crossover. High level input from my amp to the Sunfire. Gone is the Sunfire, replaced with a Vandersteen sub which uses filters to reduce bass from one's amp and regenerate in the sub. My amp has a 200k ohm input impedance. If I set the Vandersteen input filter/crossover at 200k ohms it is crossing over at 80 hz, but it sounds best set at 100k ohms. I think this produces a slightly lower crossover point but I'm not sure. Even though I'm running my signal through another box (the crossover) with associated extra plugs and interconnect the Vandy woofer was a huge improvement. Not only is the bass more precise but the improvement in soundstaging, air and room cues was substantial. Releving my main speakers of bass improved everything up above. I intend to try you near field sub experiment next rainy day but my room does not allow permanent near field placement of the sub. |
"wear out due to age" Oh I realize that Ketchup. Firstly my apologies for going audiophile on you guys..temporarily. The recent chill in the air has forced me inside. Must be the contributing factor. I said what I said because I thought hanging a pump motor would "improve" on the set up. Another way is to add the surge tank - yes. "Putting the pump in another room is the easiest way to mitigate vibrations" It's still sending noise down the air line like electricity. So a very easy way of finding out how much noise for those interested. (Discussed here already) If one wants to find out how much pump noise is being sent down the air line follow this procedure. ****************** 1) With pump on and system muted - Lower the ET2 onto a still record. 2) Turn off the air pump. 3) Still muted turn the volume up to regular listening level and Unmute the system. 4) Place your ear next to the speaker. 5) Have a friend/wife turn the pump on while you listen to the speaker. Note any differences. So it would be an interesting comparison with a standard WISA setup and a hanging one. anyways. ps. 6) One can also start jumping up and down around the turntable after #5, and, if there is no noise out of the speakers..... your setup is solid. Ok.... will turn audiophile mode off now. 8^0 |
Hi Chris, They "wear out" due to age. They get hard and crack. Putting the pump in another room is the easiest way to mitigate vibrations. An even better way is to use a large air compressor to get rid or the air pulses, but that's a different matter altogether. The info in the link above is for someone wanting to bring their pump back to factory configuration and operation. |
reading through that info.... If the WISA pumps design, produced enough case vibration to wear out its footings, this means it is also sending noise down the air line to the air bearing chamber. Why not hang - suspend, the thing in the air like the tonearm, and be done with it ? Think outside the box. I can think of a couple a ways to do it if I owned it. Just saying. |
Wisa pump isolation o-ring info here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/wisa-audio-pump-for-et2-tonearm/post?postid=1681632#1681632 |
I always thought the best tweaks for when curious or bored were the free ones. Harry, you have a nice sized space from your virtual system. What HZ do you have your speakers crossed over to the sub ? If they are crossed below 100hz, you have the option of running your sub near field. Your sub will work 1/4 as hard, there will be less heat and vibration so its components will last longer; but most important, the bass performance will increase multiple times better. Now, I realize it is not doable solution in some rooms due to aesthetics or having the sub cables running across the room. Still for giggles ..... IMO anyone running one sub or two should experience this at least one time. Regardless of how much and the type of bass each of us prefer in our rooms; I think its the bass that will make or break the room in the end. Remember to change the sub phase to 180 if anyone wants to try this. To ensure it is running in proper phase I like to place my hand on the subs cone surrounds and feel the pulses to ensure they are in sync with the bass notes from the main speakers across the room, Cheers Chris |
Are you iced in yet? Looking like a brown Christmas here with above zero temps in the forecast. When I see words like "Iced in yet ", from an audio hobby perspective, I picture homes in the northern US and Canada with full height basements and concrete floors. These spaces make the best vinyl rooms. 8^0. I believe the Denon has a conical stylus. From an empirical perspective Harry, what if any information, dynamics, musicality ? is lost compared to your other carts ? |
Wow, has it bee 6 Months? I hope that's because is thrilled and nor board with their systems. @ct0517 Are you iced in yet? This fall I acquired a Denon DL 103 M. Truly performs way above its class. No, it's not better that the Van den Hul or the Delos but for $200 it is incredible value. Very musical. It just doesn't do any thing wrong. Cheers, Harry |
Hi Guys This ET2 listing came across my inbox https://www.ebay.com/itm/382517961899?ul_noapp=true Looks like a clean, complete and original stock ET 2.0 set up for the WISA pump. Good luck to those interested. Hope you are enjoying the summer. |
Frogman - Huh!? Red/Green, White/Blue; no? It must be tough for cartridge designers being at the start of vinyl playback. I mean, once you get past the four exit pins, they have no idea what tonearm, loom/wires, TT, phono stage, rest of the chain / room.....is being used by their buyer. Does this weigh more on the minds of those making higher priced cartridges ? You would think.....I would think.....that at least get the four pins exit points the same. Make it a standard. No ? Case in point....See this picture https://photos.app.goo.gl/3mbrzpEy6iX8qyhi8 which clearly shows the cartridge lead colors. My Swiss "freedom fighter" upper picture. My Japanese heavy weight - lower picture. Total opposites on PIN exit design. Why....Confusing ...Yes. ******** Harry - as discussed here before, I bypassed Bruce’ standard loom long ago. Even Bruce uses a straight shot in, but based on what you posted I went to dig out the old looms that came with the armtubes, to have a look. I found a couple. On the one, see here. https://photos.app.goo.gl/QytmFsa3iB929PE78 There are four red,green,white, blue wires with black coverings where the leads are connected. Now on the other one - definitely older - there are again the four wires - this time the coverings where they attach to the leads are color coded, and red one is black in color. |
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@frogman Thinking more about your comment regarding phase issues. I know what reversed plus to minus on one channel does to the sound but I was not sure what I should have noticed when the two grounds are reversed with respect to one another. I know, in addition to the hum, everything was flat and lacked any meat. As soon as I switched the ground leads to proper pins the sound became more full, rich and liquid coming from a blacker background. Not too sweet or bloated just rich. For example, on a well setup analog front end, playing a well recorded live performance, when I drop the needle I can hear the room before the music starts. I just hear the air. With the ground leads reversed that was missing. Now it's back. |
@frogman My aluminum wand is Red/Black, White/Blue (no green) and the Blue pin on my VDH is very dark blue. That combined with not paying close enough attention caused reversal. And, absolutely, the sound quality was substantially degraded. Not audible distortion except for hum and loss of a black background. But probably substantial phase issues. Other than the hum the effect was more subtractive than additive. I think because I couldn't hear the hum over the music I underestimated its intensity and the hash that mis-wiring caused. But when I corrected the problem it was obvious that a lot of bad stuff had gone away. Kind of the opposite of a well setup sub where you don't know it's there until you turn it off and hear what is missing. Now, correctly wired, the VDH has never sounded better. Gobs of liquidity, black background and nice bloom. @pegasus Yes, plug in cartridges would be nice for klutzes lime me. |
Glad you figured it out, VPI. However, I am perplexed by a couple of things; and not meaning to add to any disappointment 🙃 **** Bruce's color coding doesn't match my VDH. **** Huh!? Red/Green, White/Blue; no? I do know that the Blue on my VDH’s has been unusually dark. Seems to me that a tiny bit of hum would be the least of the issues caused by reversing the two ground wires. Did you hear any other distortions or phase issues? |
I only see one solution (or is it a soulution?): A Lyra Delos in P-mount T4P-norm. Jonathan, are you listening? Actually it's not a total joke. I admit that the concept of setting tracking force by standardized brutto P-mount cartridge weight-actual cartridge weight is too restrictive to design high quality cartridges. But a standardized electrical/mechanical connection eliminates in many cases a few crimp and / or solder contacts. Besides eliminating the hassle of fiddling with cartridge clips and their solder connections, and eliminating the possibility of swapped ground or signal connections. |
^^^ Well imo, there is nothing funny about a bad ground; whether it is caused by an incorrect connection, and/or a bad connection. The later bad connection (gradually deteriorating) is one of the main reasons boat trailer lights stop working. In and out of the water, many forget to unplug the connection to the vehicle when launching a boat. Everyone with a boat trailer has done it at one time or another. This vinyl hobby for those that use different cartridges entails a lot of unplugging, replacing cartridge, and reconnecting. The four leads going to the cartridge is just asking for trouble. Making sure each lead is "tight-on" is important. I make the connections first, then I bolt on the cart. |
The great swiss writer and dramaturg Friedrich Dürrenmatt once said (ca.) that today (in the 20th century) there is no way to write dramas. Anything is a comedy. And the greatest comedy of all is reality.I like this sort of fun. And similar things happened to me too. It's more fun to laugh than to cry (if possible...) |
VPI's HUM PROBLEM Before I get started, so that no one's manhood be offended, please recognize this as HUMOR. That said, here I stand thoroughly embarrassed and disapointed. Embarrassed that after 50 years in this hobby I still don't seem to be able to correctly connect wires to my cartridge. Disapointed in that none of you geniuses thought to suggest I check to see if my hum was caused by connecting the right ground wire to the left pin on my VDH and vice versa. In your defense you probably thought that since I had been in this hobby since before many of you were borne I'd know how to wire a cartridge. In my defense, Bruce's color coding doesn't match my VDH. Today, the super, duper, triple shielded phono interconnects arrived. Obviously they did not remove the hum. A light went off. I checked and reversed the ground connections to the cartridge and, poof, hum gone. Amazing how good a VDH Black Beauty sounds when properly hooked up. In all seriousness I do appreciate all your suggestions. Harry |
vpi 8^0 As mentioned on this thread some time ago - these moves ^^^^ are known in the audiophile world, as "James Bond Maneuvers". Picture him in movies, trying to allude deadly laser beams as he tries to get to the precious in the vault, and out again. Buzzing, humming, represents the cancer in our hobby - imo. The lengths we go to, to eliminate these extraneous noises not on our source material, knows no bounds. May we all be grounded well and free of interference.... Thanks for proving my theory correct Harry. |
@pegasus Thank you for the translation. What I find rather strange is that moving my loom around produces no change in the hum while moving the interconnects around has a significant effect on the volume of the hum. Only explanation I can think of is the source of EMI is the preamp and the IC is closer than the loom. Good luck with your London. Cheers, Harry |
@vpi: Basically the hum level is strongly related to the efficiency of the magnetic circuit and specially the coil wire diameter. Increasing the number of turns (because of an air coil or more windings for a higher output) basically means thinner wire. Thinner wire helps to increase the signal, but even more increases coil resistance (ca. = impedance at audio frequencies). This leads to higher hum susceptibility with unshielded wiring. Air bearing arms need at least 15cm of unshielded wires for the wiring loom. This increases the minimal level of hum. With luck and good systematic grounding of arm and any conducting surfaces around the arm / platter / plinth / motor, and shielding the signal cables, grounding them independently at a single point at the preamp/step up input should eliminate any problematic level of hum. My experience with the ET2 is that it’s unproblematic with low impedance MCs, even with unscreened cables, which I prefer. In my actual situation with a London cartridge the source impedance of the coils forces me to implement screening – which is what I am working on this weekend...;-) |
Well, thanks Frogman and Pegasus (I think). Pegasus, while I think I understand your basic proposition, you are way beyond my level of electrical knowledge. In any event, my VDH Black Beauty is not the low output model. I don't remember precisely but it is either .5 or .6. I have not tried the VDH yet on the Garrard/Ortofon. But I suspect I would not have the hum because, as you observed, the Ortofon is far more shielded as is the Ortofon cable I'm using. If I understand your explanation, assuming no adverse effect on sq, the Huffman cables may go a long way to solving my problem as they are triple shielded yet very low impedance. Frogman, no change in hum with motor on or off, plugged in or not plugged in. And, no, I can't hear the hum with music playing, nor can I hear it more than a foot or so from the speakers at reasonable volume levels without music playing. It doesn't intrude on the music. What can I say, I'm an audiophile, I'm OC. Out, out damn hum! Chris, I plugged in some longer ICs that I can move around. Moving them around makes a substantial difference but I can't listen standing on one leg with one cable around my left ear and the other between my toes. Somehow Keith Jarrett is just not the same. 😜 Thanks to all. I'll report back if I find the magic bullet. |
Does anyone else use a wall mounted (to the studs of a weight bearing wall) shelf to mount their table? My homebrew turntable shelf consists of heavy duty L brackets from Home Depot and a 1 1/2 inch thick birch plywood shelf. You could stand on my shelf, and no feedback from the floor or woofers. I have a dedicated room and no wife acceptance to worry about. -John |
