Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners

Although I'm no longer using the ET2 at the moment, one record I found that is readily attainable is Joe Jackson's Jumping Jive. On the track titled "Five guys named Moe" there is a part where Moe is repeated 5 times. With the ET2 you can clearly hear each utterance and the position, starts front slightly right of centre and each "moe" is behind and to the left of each preceding one. The ET2 is the only arm I have found that captures this positioning in space so clearly.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&7787&4#7787

Guys - I have tried to locate 420str's for our comparative listening. I feel if we are using the same cartridge this will be more valuable. This 420str cartridge is a great candidate for this as it is affordable and great sounding -when setup properly.

I have had a couple of responses already. It is my intent to just be a go between (seller and yourself) to make this happen if u are if interested. I will insist on paypal as well. This way there will be no double paypal and shipping charges.

If you are interested in a 420 str. Please let me know.

bcpguy(@)bell(.)net

remove parentheses when replying

DG thanks for reminding me they were about 80 euros including shipping.

It might be useful to agree on a few tracks that reveal stubborn sibilance problems-- perhaps a female voice. These can be revealing of subtle problems in all but the most optimal phono set-ups. I'll ponder which albums may be helpful.

I too am happy to go along with recordings that other have. KBO is a no-brainer, the Simon is also good. No reason not to use more than one recording; including the Fagen. Re the Fagen, and some general comments applicable to all (IMO):

While it may seem anathema to use a digital recording (LP) for an experiment such as this, there is no reason not too when we consider that what we are looking at is the ability of the arm/cart setup to retrieve the info in the grooves for us to compare. Obviously, the digital recording should be an exceptional one; and wether we like to admit or not, there
are some. I like the idea of analyzing and comparing tonal qualities, but for that to be meaningful we have to be very specific and use either personal experiences of live music attendance, and/or comparisons to other LP's; in order to establish a meaningful benchmark. I don't think that comments about "the voice sounds a little bright in the upper range" will suffice. Brightness to one listener is clarity to another; unless we can also say "on this other LP XYZ, I heard a similar effect (at a specific point on the rec)". Then, we can establish some sort of pattern that will be meaningful. This could be a very rewarding experiment.

I'm happy to go along with what others have. I also have an original WB Donald Fagan & a Japanees copy also. Of course I have an original "There Goes Rymin' Simon". I'm sure I could help with a larger list guys. Actually, HP put "Negotions and Love Songs" on the TAS list years ago. "Bookends" is probably my favorite lp of all time. We can sure go in another direction. I have a KOB but not sure of it's quality.

Myself - I was hoping to get a list of lps from this to compare our thoughts and have fun listening to music. I think each of us have 1) a number of lps we really like listening to just for music – and then 2) the go to lps we use to check if all is ok in our own setups according to our preferences ? If those same LP’s fall under 1 and 2 - for me that is ideal. I am 50 so I grew up with a certain type of music but I like to listen to all music. There is no boundary. Over the years I have really enjoyed all of them lps referred to me directly or through a forum like this.
BTW - You will not see a nice review from me as Frogman just did with the Donald Fagen lp. For one I am just not good with words smithing describing music for some reason. But I can tell you why I think the ET2 tonearm is genius in a thousand words if you want. So if someone wants to describe KOB – please do !
I can also listen for specific things if pointed out to me by someone (like Frogman did), that would allow me to know if I had things set up and dialed in properly. This is valuable to me.
I have a Donald Fagen “Nightfly” in the mail. One Paul Simon “There goes Rhyming Simon” coming up.

I am somewhat concerned that just two of the many posters are interested in a (reference) lp in which to judge.

On-line judging isn't optimal, neither is, up to date reporting of similar components in differing systems on the same tonearm...?

What is the use of all of our spending, listening, comparing and of systems we will never hear or experience together, unless we have a (descent analog) reference in which we can agree on? And even then, It's very Xo%!ing lacking of any validity!

Frogman: A LP we could all agree on introduces a variety of unforseen issues. I understand that some of you are trained musicians with differing perspectives than some of us. Your mention of "Nightfly" is interesting. Yes, I believe it was one of the first digital recordings, still it envokes something, maybe, unexplained within us to envolve ourselves in this music. The musicians of this group and the music lovers may be able to come to an agreement of an appropriate reference lp.

I was reminded recently by a friend that Paul Simon's "There Goes Rhyming Simon" is an excellent recording to understand and descern the complexities of a recording. While it is a kind of (best of), it is an analog recording of excellent quality.

What do you all think?

Having said this, I realized lately that the one thing I neglect to account for in my listening sessions is the tone, etc... of each instrument. While I do notice it, this is an interesting and involving make-up of the recording that is often lost.

Thanks, Ct0517. I look forward to your remarks on KOB. It's a fantastic record with well-deserved popularity.

The second example occurs at 2:51, also in Brecker's solo. One of the things that made Brecker's sound so distinct was the post-Coltrane technique of "splitting" a note. What is meant by that is that the player is able to play a note and make other notes sound at the same time; gives the sound of that note a very dramatic quality. The way it is accomplished is by (in this case) playing the high G on the tenor by fingering the G an octave below and sounding the harmonic one octave above. In the process, if the player has enough control over the instrument, a third note "E" can be heard; he is in effect playing a chord on a melody instrument.

When tonearm/cartridge settings are not correct, what should be heard as three distinct notes becomes simply distortion in the sound of the note. The closer I get to correct VTA and azimuth, the more distinct the three notes become.

Frogman – your being a musician is obvious and gives you such an advantage when listening to LP’s. What a great post. Your turntable system is an extension of your instruments ?

Look forward to more recommendations from others.

I’d like to recommend Miles Davis KOB a very popular LP that many have and is great sounding. I am not ready to post any remarks on it yet...

Anyone else ?

Listening to the M420 last night put a smile on my face while reading Mike Fremer's comparison of the $9K H&S Ice Blue to Ortofon A90 and Lyra Atlas. I felt no more than a slight tingle of penis envy for these MCs.

It's interesting how much smaller Acutex's tri-pole induced magnet assembly is in the 420 series as compared to the prior 320 series. The 320 marketing literature talks about the advantage of oversized magnets. Accordingly the 320 has a much larger and heavier 6.2gm 320 body. The cantilever armature of the 320 is also more complicated, with tabs that project radially to the induction poles inside the cartridge body. In contrast the 420 is a svelte 4gm. The 420 looks cheaply build in comparison to the 320. But maybe looks are deceiving. Unfortunately one of the armature tabs on my 320 is bent and in need of repair, so a comparison will have to wait.

Dgarretson glad your enjoying it. The only adjustment I had to make in my system after listening to the tape was to lighten up on the VTA a bit as there was a touch too much bass in my room.
Mine has quite a few hours on it. I can tell you it just keeps smoothing out the more hours I put on it.
I am a little nervous about putting my MC on to compare for fear this piece of plastic that looks like it came out of a cracker jack box might kick its ass.

Revel(l) models! Man you just sent me back 40 years. Loved them! And yes, the Acutex looks like something that would go underneath the wing of my F-100 Super Sabre model plane. Glad you are enjoying the cartridge. It will continue getting better for a few weeks.

Hi Frogman and Ct0517, I have been running in a NOS 420STR for just a few hours and am similarly impressed. Amazing performance from what could be mistaken as a missing gray plastic piece from a Revel model.

Hi Frogman – I just compared the 420str against the 15 IPS tape for the first time. The 420str so far for an MM comes closest to the tape in my room. Both LP and tape are started together. The input source is then switched between the two. The 420 str is more open at both ends, less compressed sounding then the Empire in my room. Now I haven’t compared my SS retipped Virtuoso to tape, but from a stock cartridge point of view, the 420str so far for me is very good. Its been on there for a while so I am going a bit by memory, but have no desire yet to put on the Empire 4000 DIII gold to compare to be sure.

Definitely for me, without question, nothing else comes close for the $$, or Euros in this case. But breakin time is required. I don't keep track of the hours.

Slaw's idea of using an agreed upon recording as a reference for discussion is a great one. As such, I would like to get the ball rolling.

While I am not very familiar with the musical tastes of the contributors to this thread, a popular and commonly mentioned recording on this forum is Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly". While not necessarily my favorite genre (post '50's jazz and any classical are) it is a great example of the kind of the urban-hip sound/witty lyrics sensibility that made Steely Dan so popular. It is a recording that some days (depending on my frame of mind) I think is fantastic, and other days I can't stand to listen to it because of it's slickness. The playing is unquestionably great on all counts. It is also notable (IMO) for being fantastically well recorded and produced, and great sounding for a purely digital (Horrors!) recording. I have the original Warner Brothers pressing as well as the later Mobile Fidelity version and prefer the original, with the MF having a strangely dynamically polite quality.The track "Maxine" is a favorite and there are two musical moments on it that I often use to test how well I have fine-tuned my arm/cartridge set-up. The track features the incomparable and sorely-missed Michael Brecker on tenor saxophone, and both of these musical moments involve his brilliant (as usual) solo. I will mention each of these moments in reverse order, as the second one is more obvious and less subtle.

The tenor saxophone solo begins at 2:29, and ends at 3:02; or so we think. It culminates with two ascending runs followed by one final short statement at 3:02. At 3:03, however, the overdubbed vocal chorus comes back in singing "move up to Manhattan". At that precise moment one's attention is drawn to the vocals following the saxophone solo, and it is easy to not notice that at the very moment that "move..." is sung, the tenor saxophone plays what is in fact the true end of the solo. He plays a one note final commentary, that is a kind of musical exclamation point.

When the VTA and azimuth are not adjusted properly on my ET2 it is easy to not notice that final note; it disappears into the fabric of the vocal chorus. When things are adjusted correctly, that final note is heard clearly and distinctly from the vocals; it gives that solo even more meaning.

The second example occurs at 2:51, also in Brecker's solo. One of the things that made Brecker's sound so distinct was the post-Coltrane technique of "splitting" a note. What is meant by that is that the player is able to play a note and make other notes sound at the same time; gives the sound of that note a very dramatic quality. The way it is accomplished is by (in this case) playing the high G on the tenor by fingering the G an octave below and sounding the harmonic one octave above. In the process, if the player has enough control over the instrument, a third note "E" can be heard; he is in effect playing a chord on a melody instrument.

When tonearm/cartridge settings are not correct, what should be heard as three distinct notes becomes simply distortion in the sound of the note. The closer I get to correct VTA and azimuth, the more distinct the three notes become.

I have always felt that one of the beauties of this arm is the ability to adjust so many parameters easily and repeatably. It can truly get the best out of most cartridges.

Frogman: As you can see, I still haven't read through all of the postings since I left a while back. However, It's a very positive thing for me to put myself 'out-there' in this way and have someone with your experience with these issues comfirm my own findings. And as you all are aware... I kind of wear my heart on my sleeve, so this was a nice confirmation of my findings that are usually, well, almost always found in a setting of me and my system, no other influences. Thanks!

Chris, my Acutex 420 STR has continued to improve and after a couple of months of exclusive use it seems to be settling at a point where the only harshness heard is harshness that occurs naturally in music. I think this has got to be one of the greatest bargains in my experience. I am not prepared to say that it bests my Empire 4000DiiiGold in every respect, but while the Empire (in my set-up) tends to gloss over some of music's natural aggressiveness and nasties, the Acutex doesn't err nearly as much in the direction of being overly aggressive up top. It is also more natural in the dynamics dept. It is sounding very very good on the ET.

Slaw, sorry I wasn't clear. My Hah! is definitely a good thing! It was an exclamation intended to be an acknowledgment of and agreement with your findings. It was also a bit of a pat on the back (my own back, and hopefully not too arrogant on my part) since I pointed out the benefits of the double-leaf spring and of moving the weight as far out on the I-beam as possible a while back.

I am very glad that you were able to solve the rumble problem. Like you I have my table on a non-load-bearing wall shelf. I used to have it on a rack and had terrible issues because of springy floor. While the move to the wall shelf solved some problems it created others. I constructed a multiple-layer constrained-layer platform that the table sits on on the shelf and it works very well. Overall, it is a better solution than on the rack.

BTW, I love your idea of using a common or agreeable LP as a reference to discuss our findings with out ET2/cartridge set-ups.

Regards.

Frogman. Is your "Hah"! a good thing or not so good thing.

I still think that my new motor enclosure design will help.
I also realize that this fix may be somewhat a 'bandaid fix' towards other potential issues. In any case, I'm enjoying the problem being gone for now.

****I recently purchased a double leaf spring I-beam, re-read the manual and my (2) counterweights are now at the end of the I-beam. To my surprise, performing the cart in the groove test now results in NO rumble. Hallelulia! **** -Slaw

Hah!

I haven't yet taken the time to re-post my virtual system but I've had some interesting findings.

This should be interesting to you all, I hope it doesn't seem all about me, even though it really is.

My tt is a wall mount. Sadly, it's not on a load bearing wall. I've done my best to compensate, I have a MANA (custom) wall mount as the basis for the tt, (also a separate one for the outboard motor, thread drive), I've made a custom motor enclosure that, after hearing the positive benefits, I've already decided to construct another. I'm using a combo of Symposium platforms and BDR shelves. I use a ET 2.5, currently running 17psi @ the arm, a Dyna 17D3. (I think this cart weighs around 5 grams).

What I'm getting at is this, I've had an issue where if the cartridge is sitting in the groove, tt not spinning volume up!, I'd get a low frequency rumble. This could be several things, and I've tried several things.

I recently purchased a double leaf spring I-beam, re-read the manual and my (2) counterweights are now at the end of the I-beam. To my surprise, performing the cart in the groove test now results in NO rumble. Hallelulia! Now I'm going to play Ryan Bingham's excellent "Hallelulia"



Recently I purchased a double leaf spring I-beam

Thanks Chris,

I haven't yet caught up on everything but, what I'm sensing is awesome sonics from very economical carts. I will get caught up on this. I'm glad that Dgarretson has posted, his set-up is pretty amazing! (I wonder where he has his machining done?)

I know that IMO, there must be a few lps that most of us own, (or should own) that will be easy to obtain. I'm certainly up for a new record if I don't currently own it.

Steve - I must have posted just after your last post. I think an LP list for reference is an excellent idea.

Hi Steve, welcome back. where have you been ?
We all go through stuff ….. this hobby and forum is one way that helps me to deal with it.
Look forward to hearing about your system updates.

In follow up with Frogmans comments on the 420str, I am totally enjoying the Acutex 420str the last few weeks.

Could this be Linear arm heaven for cheap ?

Dgarretson (Dave) if you see this post please let us know how it sounds on your Terminator Linear arm. I understand that the inventor of the arm purchased multiple samples from Nandric (Nikola) after hearing it the first time.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1339746713&openflup&5&4#5

Pivot arm owners reading this - beware – this cartridge which is a little piece of nothing and costs as much as a good lunch, will give you mind and back spasms if properly set up - be assured. Most with no patience will give up on it and say it is too harsh - as I read on the MM thread.

A belated Happy Canada Day and hope my US friends here have a great 4th of July.

Cheers Chris

We all have detailed and thoughtful analysis of our systems and components. We express our thoughts on each of these and yet, we aren't focusing on a specific source!

This seems to be an obvious ommision of extreme consequense. This thread is about ET owner's experiences with this arm in our, varied systems. While our systems vary, our source doesn't have to. So, my suggestion is that we, as ET owners, discuss our experiences with this arm in our different systems with one, (agreeable) recording, (lp) in mind. To me, this makes perfect sense.

Everyone,

This is an apology. Sincerely, I apologize to everyone, especially Chris. I've re-evaluated several things (personal) and I really think I can do much better.
I've evolved in good ways and my system has come along with me. I think I do have things to offer.
So I ask you, if you all will let me back in, to accept my posts as thoughtful and from my audio heart.

Courtesy of Frogman

Modified ET-2.5 with AudioNote Silver Wire

Thanks so much guys. @Frogman, yes please on pics, email is vinylryp@gmail.com. I am in Denver, but would gladly pay 2-way shipping for the chance to test drive a loom! I get to NYC 2 or 3 times a year for a customer, but it is sporadic at best.

Bruce sent me some special 3M adhesive strip rather than velcro for the trough. My paddle just barely makes contact with the surface as it should, like I mentioned, my trough has a twist, it is as straight as it can be, but is not true. I tried to true it prior to install, but... it's okay -- like you said, you don't fill it up. I think it is doing its job fine, and the leeching has stopped, maybe I jostled it at some point.

@Ct0517, would you email more specifics on how to order a loom from Gene, more detail on the build or components? Looks like he is in Canada? I'm a former bench tech (30 years ago!), so pretty comfortable with an iron, but am not above paying for expertise either.

Hi BH80231 – you can’t be late for this ET2 party. Its been going on for over 20 years… This tonearm has stood the test of time – like Dertonarm likes to say

Frogman – I think a lot of people would love to see your setup. My email is bcpguy@bell.net

BH - I tend to move gear around including preamps so for now I need a portable sturdy solution. Soldering is not my forte, I can do it if need be but not like a professional. I am absolutely thrilled with that wiring loom, the creation of Gene at Take Five Audio. It was made for me. It can be reproduced by him and others I’m sure. I have no background hum at all - fingers crossed. Those WBT nextgen connectors – expensive but really nice.

Will post more about the damping later… Dover turned me on to this one on this thread – Dover are you out there ?

Another tip re the trough: make sure that the trough itself is level. If it is not, the amount of damping will vary (decrease) as the arm travels towards the inside of the LP. The trough has a tendency (especially if the Velcro has gotten a little wet from the fluid spilling unto it) to sit lower at the end farthest from the arm. If that is the case, put a small foam square underneath the trough at the far end to prop it up as needed.

Bh80231, if you provide your email address I would be glad to send you some pic that I just took. Luddite that I am, I can't figure out how to post pics.

I looked at the link in your post. Personally, I would purchase wire with higher pedigree; Audinote, Cardas, Discovery. The quality of the wire will make a very significant sonic difference. Wiring the ET2 with a continuous run to the preamp is not difficult, and just requires some care and common sense. Re the damping trough (which I use and like very much): make sure that the paddle just barely touches the fluid. With that in mind, you don't need so much fluid in the trough that it will spill out.

BTW, if you live in the NYC area I would be glad to loan you either a Cardas or Discovery wiring loom that I am not using. I am currently using AudioNote wire.

Good luck, and let me know if you want the pics.

Ct0517,

I have to say that I am enamored with your wiring loom!

I was close to ordering this litz wire:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170802911043?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3391wt_1141

but after reading this thread, it appears you folks have done the field testing, so am learning more from your solutions and opinions, and the photos are very helpful too!

Right now I have just done my own amateur re-wiring direct to the preamp, but would like something nicer like you and Frogman have in the wiring department.

Also, curious your thoughts on the magnetic damping? Effective? How did you arrive at the right number and spacing?

I reinstalled the damping trough the previous owner had removed, and got adhesive and fluid from Bruce, but there is a slight twist in the trough, but I was able to get the level I needed without spilling out the side. But, the fluid seems to leech back and drip, so am a bit disappointed with that.

Thanks for all the great info here, even though I'm late to the party.

I will try and post some pics in the next couple of days.

Frogman,

I would love to see a pic of your wiring setup? I recently acquired an ET-2 on a Sota Sapphire. My wire is a bit worse for wear and appears to have bathed in the damping trough at some point too... I am looking for an upgrade and am intrigued by your description and experiences.

Thanks!

Well Frogman – I wasn’t “multi-springing” wth the ET2 back when listening to the 420str last year.
So am looking forward to your tweaking recommendations on it once you have had a chance to spend more time with it. Chris

Hi Chris, I agree; bass quality can be a very subjective thing. I think you know how I feel about the ET2's excellence; bass included. But I am not talking about a lack in the quantity of the bass with the ET2; it is excellent by any measure. IN MY SYSTEM, the ET's bass can sound just a little bit diffuse (even with the high-pressure pump/manifold) and a little "soft". Over the years that I have used the ET2, I have also used several good pivoting arms including the SME V, Theta, and SyrinxPU3 (which I still own). None performed as well as my ET2 overall, and I agree that they can (particualrly the SME) provide an unwanted bass "bump". The only area where they had any advantage was in being able to provide bass detail of the kind one expects in the midrange; the ability to clearly hear inner texture in bass notes, and clarity of the bass notes themselves in the musical (harmonic) context. A minor issue, but real in my experience. Anyway, I have been surprised by the Acutex's ability to provide bass
quality reminescent of that of the pivoting arms. The bass is tuneful and very speedy, like a good MC. I find the overall sound a little bit dry ("not a beautiful sounding cartridge"), but it only has a few hours of play, and I suspect that it will improve with time. BTW, I am using the double leaf spring. I haven't tried the others yet.

Regards.

Hi Frogman – that 420str is a very interesting cartridge.
“It is not a "beautiful" sounding cartridge. It is very direct sounding, with outstanding dynamic gradations, and fine sound staging.”
Yes I had a similar experience. In fact when I had it on the ET2 last year, if I can remember right it forced me to move by listening chair a few feet back from the nearfield position. Did you find the angle of mounting to the ET2 armtube odd ? not much clearance for the top two cartridge clips ? Which version I Beam are you using with it – single, double or your own wooden one ?

Bass is subjective like everything else in this hobby. Personally I don’t have any issues with bass on the ET2 setups. This has been verified for me with my Studer 807. The technique I use.
I start the tape and lp going – they are within a couple of seconds of each other. All I do is switch the input back and forth on the dial and can instantly hear the differences between the two mediums playing in my room. The ET2 does “really well” against the tape - in my room. I have my own personal thoughts on the LF “bump” provided by pivots. I also have some info of Bruce’s analysis on the testing he did of pivot arms some years back – if you are interested in it I can email it to u.

Hello fellow ET2 enthusiasts. Been a while and I hope everyone is well. Just wanted to share some very preliminary impressions of a cartridge that I have had sitting, new in the box for a few months. I know some of you follow and/or contribute to Raul's MM mega-thread. Several months ago, there was some buzz around a new-found source for the NOS Acutex 420STR. Well, I bit and bought one from the overseas vendor.

After only a few hours of play I can tell you that this is a great cartridge for the ET2. I know some other recent purchasers, while acknowledging that it is very good, were somewhat lukewarm about it overall. Perhaps
synergy plays a major role here, but I can tell you that it is a fantastically dynamic and alive sounding cartridge, with the best bass that I have yet heard from my ET. When I say best I don't mean just quantity. The bass is very powerful, and very tuneful. One of the few criticisms I have had of the ET is bass with a slight softness and lack of definition compared to a good pivoting arm. The bass now sounds as part of the same musical fabric as the rest of the frequency range. It is not a "beautiful" sounding cartridge. It is very direct sounding, with outstanding dynamic gradations,
and fine sound staging. Just wanted to share in case you come across one.

More to follow....

Hi TheKong.

I was wondering if you made any progress with your direct couple ET 2.5 counterweight project ?

01-09-12: Thekong
Hi everyone, very interesting topic! I have obtained a used ET2 with Bruce’s upgrade 2.5 bearing, but have yet to set it up.

I am very interested in the discussion on the I-beam compliance. As far as I can tell, the arm on the Walker Proscenium turntable (which is of similar design to the ET2) has a direct couple counterweight. Since the Walker is being regarded as one of the best, I was thinking of modifying the ET2 in such manner.
I wonder what are the pros and cons to the 2 different approaches.

I have had on hand one, two ,and three leaf I beams now for a few months. I am having a lot of fun interchanging them and listening to the changes that occur with same and different cartridges. The flexibility for tuning in each of our rooms/gear that this provides is a very nice option. Thx to Frogman for turning me on to it. I would not want to give up this feature now for myself – but I am curious about making different compliant versions of a more rigid I beam - with the adjustable counterweight that just bolts on/off the spindle? This reminded me of your post back in Jan.

I keep coming back to this one. Does anyone know who the owner is ?

ET 3.0 ?

Cheers Chris

Hi Guys – I tried my highest compliant cartridge tonight on the SP10MKII w/ET2.0 HP Manifold with a triple leaf I-Beam.

A Sonus Blue Gold Cartridge.

Frequency Response - 20Hz - 45kHz
Tracking Force - 1.0-1.5g
Mass - 5.5g
Stylus Tip - special modified line contact
Dynamic Compliance 50x10-6cm/Dyne

This was the first cartridge I bought off the MM thread. A nice enough cartridge but not in the same league as the Empire 4000 Diii. A very smooth presentation overall but not near as dynamic. I call it the Swedish Skidoo.

The triple leaf I beam with lower VTA transformed it into a very dynamic performer. I do not remember it being this lively / open.

Cheers.

understand thx. Apbiii

Chris, I can't get the correct tracking force with only two small weights.

Apbiii – interesting, well the cartridge will always be the decider on the settings we use. With my higher compliance cartridge moving the lead weights from #5 on the IBeam to the end of the Ibeam changes the sound, as well as making changes to the VTA.

You’ve got me curious - are you able to get the VTF you need with two small weights – one less and stay on the IBeam ? If possible pls try this for me. I'd like to see if it makes a difference with the lower compliance cartridge. Remember those pirate movies with the plank they put people on? My weights are sitting on the end of that plank right now.

My fraternal twins killed my singing/playing career . But now I have the pleasure of hearing my daughter sing in her school jazz band, play piano and my son plays acoustic guitar. I do however play tapes at 15 ips for reference in my room. The sound is not lean/hard. It is very analog.

Cheers

Chris,

The cartridge that I use has medium / low compliance (15x10-6) or thereabouts.

I am using three small or one large weight and it is in the area of 5 on the beam.

I did notice a little leaner sound with the double leaf spring but found a loss in bass so I went back to the single leaf. For what it is worth I play and listen to a lot of live acoustic music (I play guitar and upright bass in a bluegrass / old time setting several times a week) and I am not a fan of the lean hard sound some folks claim is "Hi Fi".

I did change the VTA a bit but my cartridge does not seem to be terribly sensitive to VTA.

Apbiii - exactly. We are comparing apples to apples - well almost.

What is the compliance of the cartridge u r using and where on the scale (what number) are your weights sitting at ? Mine are on the very end of the the IBeam past the 6 and it is a high compliance cartridge.

From Frogmans earlier post as a guide.

2 or more leaf springs - heads more toward a leaner sound due to lower compliance – more detail and refinement.

One leaf spring – best tracking - but sound can become too full, even bloated and diffuse due to the higher compliance of just one spring.

This is what I am hearing going from a single to double leaf spring. Is this what u r hearing too?

Now the hard part for me.
It took me about 4 songs or – 20 minutes to find the right VTA in my system. The armtube when I look at it - seems to have a slightly negative VTA now - it was lowered. I am very close to the sweet spot stylus angle/groove with my records/system. Not finished. Bass returned but is now more refined/has real weight.

Well I finally got around to trying the dual leaf I beam. I went back to the single leaf as I liked the bass better.

HI Phil – I ended up finding a decent magnet for damping on the fridge. One of those appointment holders for pieces of paper. I placed it immediately to the left of the manifold on the platform where the spindle comes out so it is under it. Some blue tac secured it.

Some interesting info

Eminent Technology Patent Info
Cheers

Slaw-

I am using no damping. Have seen descriptions of magnetic damping, but not sure where to place a magnet or what sort to use. Meanwhile I am awaiting arrival of a "double spring" I beam, presumably one that is stiffer than my present one.

By the way, I've been reading with great interest regarding the leaf spring/s and their effect. I realized I had two and decided to take a look at the one I had been using for years. When I removed it, I noticed that the leaf spring had become unattatched. I replaced it with my other I-beam and what was instantly noticable was less movement which has translated into better sound. I plan on investigating this further.
I've made some other changes to my TT isolation and as soon as it is possible, I'll update my virtual system if anyone has any interest in following this. I have a custom armboard project in the works also.