John,
I'll probably end up getting the aluminum base sooner or later. Right now I've been tweaking and upgrading for over two months and have it where I'm very pleased with the result. So for a while I'm going to subscribe to "if it ain't broke don't fix it."
Chris,
Nice down here in the lower colonies too. Gonna have to plow the garden soon. Audio passion? How polite......Actually, I'm just retired and OC. The best description I can give to where the system is now is while I'm trying to listen to the system to make sure the setup is correct I find myself listening to the music instead.
May you all have spot on VTA,
Harry
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A lot of passion, indeed; and, I am impressed at the fine level of nuance that you are able to hear and able to describe. Harry, no shame due for wondering if raising the arm board might be a step backwards in transparency; it's always a possibility that would be hopefully offset by the gains from proper VTA adjustability. Sometimes we have to give up a little somewhere to gain something more important elsewhere. Glad to hear you don't think you've had to give anything up and the magic is back. I did have a thought about something that I am surprised we all overlooked (I think) when discussing your VTA issues. The HW19 MkIV platter itself can be raised or lowered by turning the bearing's thrust plate. When I had the MKIV I had the platter just barely clearing the table's top plate. How much clearance do you have? Lowering the platter may get you some more (or easier) VTA adjustability. Btw, the extra armboard will go out this morning; had to get through a very busy weekend. Let us know how it all works out. |
Hey Harry,
I'm happy as well that you're enjoying the arm. By the way what loading are you using on the Lyra Delos cartridge? I'm at 100 ohms with the Lyra Kleos, but using some pretty low capacitance pure silver interconnect (old AQ diamond X2) from the junction box to my phono preamp ( total capacitance 60 pf using Bruce's standard harness). -Lyra states their cartridges don't do well with high capacitance cable. So. I'm trying to keep it as low as possible. At 100 ohms, the base is incredible and vibes come thru perfectly.
Regards,
John |
Hi Frogman,
Guess I didn't know the platter height was adjustable. I'm about 1/4 inch + above the plinth. It would have been interesting to try. Not possible now unless I lower the arm board because my platter extends just a hair over the arm board and the clearance there is very small. I must confess while I've read about bearings and thrust plates for years related to TT maintenance, I'm not sure I know what the thrust plate is or how to adjust it. Good lord, not something else to adjust?!
I too am rather surprised at what I can hear. I'm 73 and spent 5 years as a Naval Flight Officer so I do have some hearing loss. I doubt I have anything left above 8-9k hz. That said, I can hear room, air and low level detail on well done recordings. Guess it is the harmonics. I suspect my hearing loss contributes to the difficulty I have with VTA adjustment. I think sometimes in search of the higher frequencies I tend to push the cartridge nose down too much. But I'm learning.
Cheers,
Harry
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Hi John,
I'm using 1 ft long pure silver unshielded, cotton insulated interconnect from junction box to my CAT SL-1 which is supposed to be 47k ohm. The IC is made by a fellow in Texas and is sold only on eBay. I don't know it's capacitance. It should be pretty low.
Cheers,
Harry |
Hey Harry,
I asked what load you were using on the Delos because my Kleos is very similar.
I found 100 ohms worked best for me. Very much higher made the highs get a touch strident. What have you found? It was easy to switch loads with the ARC ph-5 on the fly with the remote, and I could tell instantly which was best.
John |
Well, my CAT preamp has RCA inputs into which I can plug loads to change the loading but the only loads I have are 40 and 80 ohms. I've tried them both and found them to roll of the highs a bit much for me. But, then, there is my hearing loss in the high frequencies. Most of the bloggers I have read relating to the CAT seem to prefer it straight in at 47k. I do wish I had the luxury of remote to compare loading from my sweet spot. Alas, I think I'll be buried with my CAT.
Convergent Audio is a rather unique company. They have no web site and no published email or phone number. I don't believe they even advertise. Ken Stevens is rabidly protective of his dealers and forces all contact through them. Makes it difficult for the tweakers among us. Unlike, ET you can't just pick up the phone and say, "Hey Ken, send me down some loading plugs."
The company was not that way in its earlier days. In fact, I actually spoke with Ken a few times shortly after purchasing my preamp. I'm not denigrating the company. Ken builds a super product. At the risk of alienating others on this thread, the only preamps I've heard that I thought were in the same league are the ARC SP-10 and SP-11. I do confess to have an interest in the ARC SP-20. I need to get down to Atlanta to see if I can listen to one. Purchase would have to wait another year or two for prices on the used market to come down some.
Harry
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Lyra recommends between 90ohms and 47Kohms for your cart. I really think you would benefit from somewhere in between, especially if you're trying to improve your bass. The bass will improve while the treble gets less strident as you decrease the load. (going from 47K on down) You would appreciate it since you've got the arm dialed in. Can you sling solder? I would ask Ken where to solder in some loads. He has no doubt helped other owners of his fine preamp with the same issue. It's a very common problem for vinyl fanatics.
Sorry for meddling, but just trying to help, since you're trying to get the max out of your setup.
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vpi, I’m a lot older than you and been around a lot of jets as well.
I know my hearing is way down but the brain compensates very well if it knows losing music would affect your overall stasis significantly .
Nuro science had advanced a thousand fold on stuff like this with ground-breaking research from Oxbridge in UK .
Glad I never saw an ET-2 ,I’d really be nuts . Of course ET-2 really means Electronic Technician Second Class ,USN . |
John,
No offense taken. I don't consider any suggestions meddsome on this thread. I very much appreciate the suggestions. Think I'll noodle around the Internet to see if I can find some loading plugs.
............................................
shubert,
Love the ET second class analogy. Brings back fond memories and, yes, it's like we can srtill hear what we're not supposed to be able to hear any more.
Cheers,
Harry
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Its not LIKE we can still can, its we really can !
ET-2 is a proud title for any man . |
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Good evening,
Follow up report. While I will not claim to have become an ET expert, after about two months of tweaking and upgrading I can offer some suggestions on listening to your tweaks.
1. For those of us who use subwoofers, the tuning of your subwoofers adds a whole additional layer to what you hear. My advice here is to either get your subwoofer settings where you want them before you tweak/upgrade your ET or disconnect your subwoofer and listen for a few sessions before tweaking your ET. Then go back and readjust the sub before you pass judgement on your ET tweak. A tweak you think was one step backward may well be two steps forward when you get your sub tuned back in. VTA setting and sub integration can be interrelated.
2. When tweaking your ET pick 2 or 3 of the LP's that you rely on for testing your system and stick with them until you are happy with the result. Do not start sampling your record collection before you are satisfied with your work. Few of us have record collections comprised of only excellent recordings. If it was a lousy recording before you upgraded your ET, it will probably still be a lousy recording no matter how amazing your upgrade or tweak.
3. Be disciplined when you upgrade. Do one tweak or upgrade at a time. Perform only those tasks necessary to complete the upgrade or tweak you set out to accomplish. Do not give a bolt or screw that is not part of your upgrade one last twist before listening. I.e. Resist the urge to give that loose VTA block bolt a little twist for good luck.
These suggestions are probably second nature to you old hands but I think they can save a good deal of frustration to those new to ET upgrades and tweaks.
May you spend more time listening to your music than your system,
Harry
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Good suggestions, Harry. I sent you the board via USPS yesterday. I also included a piece of the material that I mentioned previously. If and when you get around to trying the "double-board" I would try with and without the sheet between the boards. Resonance and its effects is a crazy thing and the two boards, as tightly together as they may be held together, will still resonate as thinner boards in, at least, parts of their total surface area; as flat as these boards may be cut, they won't make contact with each other over their entire surface area. The sheet between them may help them act "as one" and will introduce some dampening which may or may not be beneficial in the context of your system and your tastes. At least, that is how my twisted brain considers this kind of thing. Please report any impressions.
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Thanks again frogman,
I'll be interested to hear whether the double arm board performs better than the single with spacers. I'm going to try it first w/o the damping. I understand the two boards will not mate perfectly across their entire surface area but, then, there isn't any damping between the metal sub plinth and the single board either. Then still again no one ever argued the HW-19 can't benefit from tweaking.
Harry
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John,
Tried to contact Convergent Audio Technology without success. All you get is a recorded mesage telling you their business hours. They build great products but are very customer unfriendly. So I'm getting brave. Ordered some nice looking RCA plugs to build my own cartridge loading plugs. Do you know if resistors are directional, i.e. Is there a plus end and a negative end?
Thanks,
Harry
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Hi Harry (and John)
what happens when you guys run your Lyra carts on 47k load ?
Chris |
Hey Harry,
I know that resistors aren't directional. I would check the type of resistors in the original CAT plugs, and buy the same quality. You probably need metal film resistors (1/2 -1 watt) 1% tolerance. Definitely 100 ohms and if you have enough plugs maybe a 500 and a 1000ohm resistor set. I usually buy 5-10 for each value, and measure each set with an ohm meter, -digital if you have one. Match up pairs with closest val;ues for each set. Buy them from Mouser electronics on line. They are very cheap, and shipping will be most of the cost. That's why you buy more than you need. If CAT uses Vishay resistors, I would buy that brand, but probably not.
By the way, can you solder, and do you have any silver solder? You can get silver solder from "Michael Percy" on line. Google him.
Hey Chris,
The Lyra cartridges sound a bit bright and lack bass at 47K. I hear a real improvement in freq response with lower values. My ARC ph-5 has values of 47K 1K, 500, 200, and 100 ohms. I use 100.
-John
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Hi Chris,
I checked with Bruce about the gap between the VTA mechanism and whatever.
He said "
The gap does not need to the same between the VTA shaft bearing blocks and the manifold housing. The four screws should not be torqued down to close the gap, the average should usually be about.02 to about .06 inches. If the VTA mechanism is working correctly, the torque on those four screws should adjust the stiffness of the motion of the VTA mechanism and not tightened to the point that it stops."
Just thought everyone ought to know his opinion.
-John |
Hi John the diagram in this link came from Bruce. the setup in that pic is mine. Diagram - We have two vertical plates/walls, a roller in between and four horizontal bolts holding it together. It makes sense that all four horizontal bolts should be at the same gap for even operation. I have talked to Bruce before about the .02 to .06 range and it is a personal choice. I prefer firm .02 as I do not use the VTA a lot with my cart / preamp. As we know going .06 is the gap opening extreme value - also the least firm action. So action on the lever is loosest/smooth. If the VTA is working properly and someone wants to literally VTA on the fly - as the record plays - looser is easier. The Lyra cartridges sound a bit bright and lack bass at 47K. I hear a real improvement in freq response with lower values. My ARC ph-5 has values of 47K 1K, 500, 200, and 100 ohms. I use 100.
Those load values are true of the latest ARC Ph9 as well. 47k, 1k, 500, 200, 100. My SP11 MKII uses values of 47k, 100, 30, 10, 3 It's been my personal experience that the phono circuit design into single load values, needs to be ultra low noise in design, to be able to use single digit values. I assume ARC chose higher values on their newer phono stages/ preamps designs due to the customer / cart requirements that exist today. Regarding how your Lyra cart reacts to 47k. Maybe this is cart specific I don't know, don't own a Lyra cart. fwiw I can use 47k on MC's with no loss in frequency and if it is a brighter recording, the SP11 has adjustable Gain - I can dial it down a bit. Takes out the brightness. Get it right and I can get the band sounding like they are at the Mic. On regular records 100 loading works fine, and produces a good Studio like sound. I don't have a remote but the SP11 is parked at the side of me within reach. Cheers Chris |
Hello all,
Had recent email exchange with Bruce. Told him rumor was he was considering a run of long I beams and if he was to please put me down for one. He said he was thinking about it. Maybe a little encouragement from us would help?
Re cartridge loading, I'm not at all disappointed with what I'm hearing but John kind of talked me into trying the 100 Ohm loading. Going to give it a shot to see what I hear. Cheap and easy tweak.
I think within certain limits cartridge loading is listener and recording dependent. I listen to a lot of small combo jazz. I want to be able to hear cymbals that sound like brass (not steel) shimmer and extend off into forever. But when you spin up a trumpet like Miles, you don't want it ear piercing.
An example of recording dependent:. I really like the great sax players. I think Paul Desmond was one of the greats and own many of his records. I read a story about Desmond years ago that said he had an obsession about not being able to hear the spit in his reed. He insisted the recording engineers roll off his feed. As a consequence I often raise VTA when listening to Desmond. Even though his great RCA recordings with Jim Hall were extremely well done, you almost never hear the air across the reed like you do on a Ben Webster recording.
And as I mentioned earlier I believe, from a listening perspective VTA and subwoofer tuning are interrelated. If you raise VTA for top end extension, if necessary, you can inch up the sub to fill in bass a little. Can't get carried away or bass will get tubby but just a little can help with foundation.
Again, however, I think once you get your system well set up a lot of this boils down to listener preference.
Cheers,
Harry
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It's too bad that audiophiles abandoned bass, midrange, and treble controls in the interest of fidelity to the source. It's also too bad that many master recordings can stand a bit of tweaking. I liked my old Marantz receiver just fine for this, but someone talked me out of it!
John |
Interesting comments on the subject of mc cartridge loading; especially from Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere and references to Jonathan Carr's feelings on the topic. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mc-cartridge-loadingIn the context of my systems over time my experience with cartridge loading has been that most of the mc's that I have owned sounded "best" at 47K. While lower values could tame possible excessive brightness or add fullness to the upper bass/lower midrange, these "benefits" were often accompanied by a loss of overall detail and linearity and a sense that dynamics were being supressed. I found that I could ultimately achieve more satisfying sound by addressing the issue of brightness or lean bass (at 47K) elsewhere in my system or by changes in VTA and slightly higher VTF. In fairness, my systems have tended to be fuller sounding than most, and I can understand how in the context of a leaner sounding system one might take the other approach. Harry, Paul Desmond had one of the most beautiful alto sounds ever; as you point out he was one of the greats. His obsession with not wanting to hear the spit on his reed led him to say what is one of my favorite quotes in jazz. When asked how he got that beautiful pure tone he replied that he wanted "... to sound like a dry martini". I think that what he was asking for from the engineers was that they not let close micing alter his natural tone which did not normally have the sound of air and spit in it. Close micing will exaggerate any air or spit in the tone, so "rolling off his feed" would compensate for that exaggeration. Ben Webster, on the other hand, used what is referred to as "subtone". He didn't want the purity of tone that Desmond had and cultivated that breathy-with-spit tone. Both great players. Regards. |
Hi frogman, I share with you the admiration for Paul Desmond. I play the alto myself and he has +/- my ideal sound on the instrument (within the limits of my abilities, and the recorded sound as you point out).
Loading MCs: Your line of thoughts reminds me of my experiments with the Magnepan MG3 speakers with their superbly transparent, but often a bit glassy sounding tweeter. I started with the usual recommendation to put a "normal" resistor in series, but this was loosing much too much transparency (a noiseless back-ground with kind of a plentyful sea of lively information). Then I used parallelled ERO Resista metal film resistors, but the effect was not much better. Then I replaced the HF-Litz feeding the ribbon with a thin solid core wire and had success with more transparency and less "noise" and brightness. Ultimately I developped an independent, three-wired new crossover (with soldering to the ribbons... :-) which somehow integrated the superior mid/high transparency of the two-way MG 2.5 (and MG 2.6) into the three-way-MG 3.
Before these changes I had the feeling that my Koetsu Black / VdH 1 needle (Gyger upgrade) was sounding "bright".
Removing the transparency obstacles, which created stress and brightness, allowed to retrieve the VdH1 stylus information without glassyness.
I am skeptical of loading as a cure for problems created elsewhere, it's not really working in that context, it's too much of a compensation game (for me). I loose too much, gain not much.
Besides: The direction of the resistor is as audible as that of cables, as is the brand and type of resistor (and the preparation of the wires and the soldering including the solder).
To attain an experimentally "clean lab table" for these kinds of comparisons, within the context of the ultimately almost always slightly sloppy way people generally do their comparisons, seems pretty optimistic to me. |
Pegasus, I lived with MGIIIA's for many years and, to this day, the sound I achieved with them in the loft space that they were in is the best from any system that I have ever assembled; with the possible exception of the sound from my Stax F-81's. Apples and oranges however as the presentations are very different in scale. That sound, however, was achieved only after extensive mods (completely upgraded xovers and rewiring). Your description of that great ribbon tweeter is exactly as I experienced it and I found that, as well as upgrading the cheap wiring, the most effective solution for the "glassiness" that you describe was hardwiring all the connections to the panel and the (now) completely outboard xovers and bypassing the fuses altogether including the tweeter's fuse (I lived dangerously back then) thereby removing all that nasty steel from the signal path. Transparency was greatly improved and as you point out this allowed me to better hear problems elsewhere in the system. I have been getting very interested in Maggie's again. Great speakers and IN THE RIGHT ROOM capable of surprising bass extension with an absolutely huge and very coherent soundstage. I was able to get 28hz -3db in that large space! Miss those speakers. That was all around the same time that I bought my ET2 which is the only piece that I have kept all these years. That says something, I think.
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Chris,Harry, and all,
I have to amend my thoughts on cartridge loading. I tried 47K over the weekend and cymbals did seem to shimmer a bit better with no downside to the bass. I believe that the tweaks on the ET-2 have enabled me to appreciate what my cartridge can do. -Thanks to you guys for that.
-John
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Hello all,
Been away for a few days. Drove over to Nashville for a long weekend of live music. The venues were pretty terrific and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to listen to my system when I got home. Not so. Turned on the system, warmed up the tubes and it sounded excellent. Not live music but still sounding great. I think it does us well to walk away for a few days.
Frogman, I received the arm board. Thank you much. Going to wait a while before trying it out. I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing. The mag arm wand was a nice improvement.
John, my plugs and resistors arrived while I was gone. I'll try it out later this week but I've got nice tight bass and nice cymbal shimmer without brightness, straight into my CAT at 47k ohm. Like you, I think my ET II tweaks are showing my Delos at its best.
Harry
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Glad to hear that Harry. Did you visit the "Bluebird cafe"? I'd love to make a visit.
I'm excited about a new acquisition, arriving on Wednesday. -An Allnic 1201 phono preamp. It's tubed, but uses a transformer based input. I'll have to stick with the lower impedance loading on this piece, as the unit has a max of 260 ohms which is what Jon Carr recommends with the capacitance of my cables.
This is uncharted territory for me, as I've never used step-up transformers on low output cartridges. I hope it's a step up for my system. I'll write a f/u.
Best to all,
John |
John,
Tried to go to The Bluebird for lunch not realizing they were only open for dinner. By then it was too late for reservations. Good luck with the new preamp. Let me know how it works out. I've never used a SUT either.
Harry
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Hi Guys Look forward to your impressions of the Allnic John. Harry would love to check out the Nashville music scene one day ... Of note on the loading discussions. Taken from Lyra website Kleos Recommended load directly into MC phono input: 95.3ohm ~ 816ohm (determine by listening, or follow detailed guidelines in user manual) Recommended load via step-up transformer: 5 ~ 15ohm (step-up transformer’s output must be connected to 10kohm ~ 47kohm MM-level RIAA input, preferably via short, low-capacitance cable) Delos Recommended load directly into MC phono input: 97.6ohm ~ 806ohm (determine by listening, or follow detailed guidelines in instruction manual) Recommended load via step-up transformer: 5 ~ 15ohm (step-up transformer’s output must be connected to 10kohm ~ 47kohm MM-level RIAA input, preferably via short, low-capacitance cable) *********** My XV1 has a recommended loading of > 30. I have run it full out 47k with no issues. From this thread.. There were good takeaways for me from J. Carr on that thread, from quite a while ago. J Carr Generally speaking, the greater the capacitance across the plus and minus cartridge outputs, the heavier the resistive loading needs to be to control the resulting high-frequency spike. Conversely, less capacitance allows the resistive load on the cartridge to be reduced, which will benefit dynamic range, resolution and transient impact.
*************
PS. The possible frequency range occupied by the high-frequency resonant spike also includes the frequency range encompassed by LP pops and ticks, and these can likewise be of quite large magnitude (larger than any music signal inside the groove). Just as with the high-frequency resonant spike, controlling pop and tick energy is the task of the phono stage (although it is a big help if the cartridge has a low-mass moving assembly). The phono stage and cartridge can have an immense influence on how "noisy" your LPs appear to be.
^^^ It highlighted for me also, how important a role the direct shot wiring plays. I am sure it plays a big part, along with my phono stage, for the reason I am able to run with no load. Cheers Chris |
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the link to that rather involved discussion of the interaction of cartridge, interconnects, and loading. I must say I'm more confused than ever, but have learned a few things.
Has anyone taken into account the break in of the connection between cartridge and phono pre? With only millivolts on the cable, does it ever break in, and stay that way, if you believe in such things?
I got sold on a new interconnect by "Allister" at Audioquest, incorporating the DBS system. -Never used DBS before, but seemed like a good idea for this application.
I imagine it will beat my 25y/o AQ diamond IC's. An AQ water will arrive tomorrow. If it doesn't work in that application, I'll try it elsewhere in the system.
I'll get back to you about that.
John |
Just to add to my last post in followup; as I got curious and just finished talking with Gene at Take Five Audio who made my loom.
This is in regards to the ET 2 direct shot wire looms being used.
Capacitance versus Noise
Where my wires leave the armtube they are separated with distance between them. There are two reasons for this. 1) The least binding effect on the ET 2.5 travel. 2) lowest capacitance.
Now if you braid the wires you will reduce noise - but you will increase capacitance. It’s a give and take. So when discussing the benefits of low capacitance with loading the cart - a big part of the result will be the way the cart wires are arranged in proximity to one another.
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The AQ interconnect I acquired has a capacitance of 20 pf /foot or 71 pf/meter or thereabouts. Combined with the ET-2's cap of 40pf that's about 110 pf total. I tried it today and am very happy with the improvement. When I added the new phono preamp, -whole new level, even though the load on the preamp is pretty much fixed, at 280 ohms. -One less thing to worry about. I really like the SUT concept and am unlikely to go back. The S. Korean designer is pretty slick. The new preamp is like a hotrod. No remote etc, no bells or whistles; just incredible sound. I recommend it highly, even though it's not even burned in. I'm in hog heaven, and I even passed up the Braves game to listen instead.
-John |
Must be good to pass up on the ball game 8^0
Good stuff John.
Our Blue Jays have started out really really BAD. But hockey playoffs are here and that is part of our Canadian blood. I have coordinated my musical fixes to right after markets close and before the evening matches. Market moves dictate musical choices. hah hah |
Sure John,
You talk me into trying 100 ohm load then go buy a new preamp. :)
Sounds like you have a winner. I tried the 100 ohm load. ( I surprised myself with nice clean solders.) The difference is subtle. Midrange seems a tad smoother and rounder but without bloat. Highs may be a bit tamer but not too rolled off. I may have lost a little transparency, but not sure. I'll let you know in a couple days.
Enjoy the Allnic.
Chris,
Took note of J. Carr's recommended load range starting at 97.6 ohms. Think we can hear the difference between 97.6 and 100? Just curious. :)
I must be in a sarcastic mood today😈
Harry
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Nope, it didn't take a couple days. With the 100 ohm load I lost the impact of hammers on piano strings and fingers on strings of upright bass. I'm back to straight in at 47k Ohm and not hearing anything I don't like. At least nothing a Lyra Atlas wouldn't cure :)
Harry
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Chris,
Sorry the 100 ohm loading didn't work for you. Do you know the capacitance of your loom? I guess everything matters including your tastes, equipment, and listening acuity. But Mr. Carr is the designer, and I'll stick with his recommendation. He says that 47K will work, but then goes to great lengths to delineate which loading works best for each capacitance range to make the frequency response flat. Do you still have your owners manual for the Delos? I checked and discovered that the specifications for the Delos are not the same as the Kleos, though they share the same bloodline. So, just use your ears. That's what Mr. Carr advises.
Cheers,
Jolhn |
^^^ I think u mean Harry.... John. Harry - I must be in a sarcastic mood today😈 Harry The markets were in a very sarcastic mood today. A whitewash win for Wallstreet. 8^( So - for the musical fix now - my immediate play albums are arranged in 4 rows along the floor against the wall in room A. btw - Kitty likes to use them as a raised highway on the left side. 1st row music - makes me want to sing - sing out loud. 2nd row music - goes further and will even get me up and I do a little dance. 3rd row music - makes me fall to my knees and cry - hard - so hard I will get dehydrated. I will need "beverages" close by to re-hydrate. 8^0 4th row music - oh......we try not to go to this row too often - the words and music from this 4th row give one thoughts of revolting against the government .......and or the (spouse)..... same thing really, no? Well - 3rd row it is. Running with load is like running a race with your left foot on the brake ....riding it - the more load the harder you push on the brakes. Now good brakes do win races, but they end up costing you a lot more in brake parts. :^) so Free Willy I say ! Just being sarcastic .. enjoy the Allnic John. |
John & Chris,
Yes, certainly, I'm using my ears. I'm using the stock ET II wiring to a phono block and 1 ft of pure silver, uninsulated interconnect from the phono block to preamp. I don't know the capacitance of the wire. Sound is, however, very transparent. As I think has already been mentioned here, loading can vary from one preamp to the next even using the same cartridge. CAT recommends 47k for most all cartridges. I may give 1000 ohm loads a shot just for comparison but I'm really happy straight in.🎶
I guess my sarcasm was a harbinger for the market. A great day and I might have been able to get that Lyra Atlas. I usually go with third row LPs. Gives me an excuse to hydrate (red wine). When I'm in a revolutionary mood I read a little Ayn Rand.🤑
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Well guys,
Sorry for my mistake. I do know who everybody is.
Harry, whatever works for you is what's important.
I never could get used to the idea of the bypass loom straight to the preamp. I'm pretty satisfied with Bruce's very tiny litz wire harness to the terminal. It's very easy to configure it not to influence the arm balance in any direction. From the terminal you can use what you want. I like that flexibility.
-No Braves tonight, and I guess I'll have to force myself to do some listening.
John, fellow obsessive |
I like that flexibility. Ah, yes John, "flexibility" ........ and let's not forget convenience. Is giving an audiophile options, a good thing ? 8^0 |
Hmmm, options for audiophiles. Let me see now - Lighter weights all the way out or heavier weights closer in? Tweak VTA a little up or a little down? Nudge the sub woofer volume a little up or a little down? How about the crossover point of that sub? Magnesium or carbon fiber arm wand? Wire straight in to preamp or via phono block? Now, how about that loading - 100, 1000, or 47k ohm? Oh, yes, and most of these are interdependent - change one and you have to change them all. Which to do first and which to do last. Is the tracking force still correct? Sure is fun ain't it?
"Oh, heck, Harry, Just listen to the music!"
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Chris,
It's the endless enigma. If I didn't have all those options, it wouldn't be fun. For that matter, it wouldn't be mine. (or me)
An old audiophile buddy of mine, now deaf, used to tell me, "don't F with it." I just can't resist.
-John |
John,
I think my humor didn't come through in the printed word. I agree, half the fun would be gone without these options. But it's also fun to complain to guys who know what you're talking about.
Cheers,
Harry |
-Screwed up again with my address to Chris and not Harry. Maybe I should eat breakfast before reading and posting? Maybe don't end your posts with a quote, and I'll keep it straight. Hypoglycemia? -At least I can still hear.
Go, Braves!
John |
Have come across folks that consider resolving analog setups, that allow you to perceive VTA changes, a curse. What a hassle they say. They just want to listen to the music. I used to own a stock Technics SL1200 from long ago. It was passed mostly to work friends, who would hang onto it a year or two, and give it back after they decided that either vinyl was not for them (or their kids), or they just got their own table. I sold it about 1 1/2 years ago and the buyer was a young lady. She came to pick it up with her father. It had a Grado black on it, played music, and you didn’t worry about VTA.
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I passed along my first system (circa 1972) to my younger brother who still uses it to this day. My first phono preamp and record cleaning machine went to a friend who, though not an audiophile, owns a large vinyl collection from the 60's-80's. I put him onto a new turntable and cartridge when his vintage Beogram died.He's the only guy I know who still plays vinyl.
John |
This and That Harry
Hmmm, options for audiophiles. Let me see now - Lighter weights all the way out or heavier weights closer in? Tweak VTA a little up or a little down? Nudge the sub woofer volume a little up or a little down? How about the crossover point of that sub? Magnesium or carbon fiber arm wand? Wire straight in to preamp or via phono block? Now, how about that loading - 100, 1000, or 47k ohm? Oh, yes, and most of these are interdependent - change one and you have to change them all. Which to do first and which to do last. Is the tracking force still correct? Sure is fun ain’t it? Lets analyze Harry. Takes my mind off the oil stocks :^( *************** "Lighter - weights all the way out" follows physics; gives highest vertical inertia as well as following manual setup instructions. Heavier weights closer in? Opposite effect .... add enough weight close to the spindle and you will bottom out the air bearing. **************
Tweak VTA a little up or a little down?
Everyone’s setup will be different. Some cartridges don’t need much VTA adjustment. ************** Nudge the sub woofer volume a little up or a little down? How about the crossover point of that sub? I would only after setting up the system without the subs first. This assumes the preamp output does not go through your subs first, before going to your main speaker amp/s. Magnesium or carbon fiber arm wand? Magnesium for Winter duty. Carbon Fiber for All Season use. Wire straight in to preamp or via phono block? Bruce uses a straight in setup. Have never heard of anyone who uses a "straight in" setup; going back to the multiple connections. Now, how about that loading - 100, 1000, or 47k ohm? If you go straight in you can adjust the distance between the wires changing the capacitance and altering how your phono preamp reacts to the settings. This can be fun; along with the extra gain one gets when going straight in. Is the tracking force still correct?
Only with the ET2 :^) When is boating season going to start ? ?? |
Harry,
Are you suffering from audio nervosa?
Just throw some money at it like I did. Don't worry; be happy.
I gave up on VTA as the Lyras are pretty immune with the cartridge top surface parallel to the LP surface.
I don't worry about loading any more either. The Allnic is fixed. I don't know what it is. Only the gain is adjustable at the SUP.
Is that screwey or what? -Really doesn't matter if it sounds heavenly!
Good weekend.
John |
Just throw some money at it like I did John - your statement brought back memories. I used to get dropped into various companies with a team, to fix problems. The first thing the CFO would say to us after the kickoff meeting. "Ok , so tell me, how much money is it really going to take to fix this problem? " |
