Been in meetings with the Bears. No.... not the ones on Wall Street. The real ones. The ones that speak the truth. heh heh gyneguy225
PV=nRT as I remember. John I would never have taken you for a formula kind of guy ? Formulae (Formulas?) make my eyes do this * ^ ( So, If it was all about formulas; shouldn't the Perfect Sound have replaced vinyl long ago ? . . . . Blackfly....... Blackfly......please go away. |
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It's a lot of hot air in my opinion. John - this reminds me of the ET2 guy in Texas on this thread a couple of years ago. He kept his pump in his unconditioned garage - temps would reach 120+ F. Guess what happened to that hot air when it finally reached his ET2 manifold in his listening space at an air conditioned 70 F. Wish he was still around. I would ask him to talk to those Oil Guys and tell them to turn the taps down. Just for a bit (pun intended), so I could get a little pop. "8^0 |
I get about 7.5 psi out of that setup which is what Bruce told me to expect. The noise isn't a problem as the pumps are in the next room in a closet. If I deadhead the pumps' output, I get around 12 psi. -And my manifold is the high pressure version. It's a lot of hot air in my opinion.
-John |
Hi John, no, your WISA pumps work the same. But connecting them parallel and out of phase makes them work the same way as a double diaphragm pump, like the original HiBlow: Single ended vs. push-pull... The air pressure is much more constant, "stabilized" pressure being about the same as the pressure peaks of a single WISA.
How high is the pressure? I assume it’s still not much higher than the original pump, and the worse noise/vibration is remaining. Besides I was not able to connect WISAs in series (nor will such a parallel combo), contrary to the HiBlow pumps with their air-sealed housing, which allows operating them above normal atmospheric pressure. |
I use two wisa pumps working out of phase with each other in parallel, two large surge tanks in series with a small surge tank made from a plastic radio control gas tank, sitting a few feet from the ET-2. When I did the above test, it was complete silence with and without the pumps on. -Guess my pumps are different?
-John |
This is indeed the way I tested this. Stylus in groove, platter stationary, pump running, phono gain turned up. In this test the HiBlow was audibly quieter than *my* WISA 300 high pressure. |
^^ "This resulted in a homeopathic 50Hz drone"’8^0 If one wants to hear if their pump is introducing noise. Ensure your setup is good before attempting this. With the air pump ON and system on mute, lower the ET2 onto a "STILL" record. Now turn OFF the air pump, and unmute the system. Have your friend now turn ON the air pump, while you listen close to the speaker. Ensure your setup is good before attempting. |
Regarding pumps and pressure:
a) Back in the 80's I found that the WISA 300 "high pressure" model (of which I bought several, directly from the company) was a single membrane pump, not a double one like the original HiBlow. My high pressure WISA model dropped in actual measured pressure level at the arm below the HiBlow, and had a high variation of pressure (mains frequency) - and the needle vibrated. This resulted in a "homeopathic 50Hz drone" that subjectively gave more, but a slihtly tubbier bass - this was *with* a ca. 7.5l tank.
b) I then chained two HiBlow pumps, ie. I hot-glued a piece of silicon tube to the inlet of one pump and to the outlet of the other pump. This resulted in (if I remember correctly) ca. 0.45 Bar (6.5 psi?). Three pumps were around 0.6 Bar, all this sounded very good, and was more silent than a WISA pump. The HiBlow has a surprisingly steady flow and it's limitation can be surmounted by chaining two or three. On the ET 2's "normal" low pressure bearing the two HiBlows were a remarkable improvement.
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John
The owners I have talked with before this thread started used to use bubble levels. If one really wants to find out the wiring effect (push and / or pull)... set the arm up without the wiring. Then add the wiring in and find out the truth. This is how I do regular setup. If one were a wire loom swapper kind of audiophile - which I am not. It would take all of 10 minutes to swap out entire wire looms using the wiring layout I am using.
As far as PSI - people should be using the PSI designed for the manifold by Bruce. If someone picks up a used ET2 and this is unknown - we have discussed the process on how to determine the PSI. If anyone wants to rehash, then lets rehash. Higher PSI won’t harm things unless you go over 19 psi. We can discuss why this is too if someone wants. There is a reason Bruce designed my ET 2.5 for 19 PSI.
With that it bears repeating that if someone is using higher PSI and it sounds better, it is likely because;
1) air flow quality is better over the previous pump - not because of the higher PSI.
2) your manifold capillaries are partially clogged.
If using the original pump on a stock ET2 - the pump may be producing PSI but it is unlikely the diaphragm is in spec. Air flow quality suffers.
The ET2 is like an Olympic runner when it comes to good air flow. The better the flow, the better the operation, and therefore the sound. If we analyze how other air bearing tonearms work, it is really quite fascinating (to me), how different each design is.
Cheers Chris
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Hey Chris,
I've always balanced my arm that way. Doesn't everyone? I don't use the damping trough, however. I'm also only using 7.5 psi on the arm, as that's the best two wisa pumps in parallel can do. Am I missing something here?
-John |
You straight in loom guys are ganging up on me. Damn straight shooters .....8^0 Choices are clear to me. One can walk around the forest, or go through it. Harry - re: your mini farm comment. Farms, gardens, even "lawns" are a lot of work. Lawns around here are going to hell with the Pesticide ban. Controlling ones lawn has become a very difficult thing. Friends cross the border into the US at Niagara Falls to purchase (Killex) at big box stores; then smuggle it back. My neighbor’s "hobby" is his lawn. He goes out there and picks the weeds out one by one. and the original litz wire from Bruce effects the arm balance not at all. IMO, The best way to determine this John is with Gravity and physics. Forget the bubble levels. Move your arm to different spots on the platter. With air on - place the cartridge weight blue tac blob on the weights. Make it free float. If the spindle does not move it is balanced. Try it at the lead in, middle and run out grooves. I should put this much detail into my lawn. :^( |
Hey Harry,
I was mixed up about which preamp you were using. Sorry.
I'm with you on the loom thing. My AQ interconnects with the DBS system are working just fine (it apparently keeps the dielectric in the cables constant), and the original litz wire from Bruce effects the arm balance not at all. There are trade offs in everything. I'm sure that a straight shot from cartridge to preamp with a loom would sound great, but I simply don't want to take everything apart and start over again.
-John |
Hello all,
Been away for a while. Spring has arrived in Western Carolina and my mini farm has been demanding attention.
John,
I don't know what Calypsos and Callistos are so I guess I don't have either. Enlighten me. I agree, with my Delos level and all other parameters set I find myself playing with VTA less and less.
Chirs,
My complaints were just poking fun at myself. All of these choices/tweaks, aside from being a great learning experience, have brought me a whole lot of great listening. I agree, don't start playing with the sub until everything else is set up to your liking. I don't run my sub from the preamp and only use the crossover in the sub for setting the upper limit for sub. Main speakers are driven directly from power amp and sub driven from power amp to high level inputs on sub.
You straight in loom guys are ganging up on me. It's not that I don't believe you. I'm just intimidated by the thought of all that loose wire hanging all over my ET II.
Bill Evans is calling,
Harry
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Cardas still makes his RCA jacks and plugs of brass! The WBT Nextgen and Klei use copper and/or silver, and with anti-eddy current RCA "barrels". |
Audio setup can be like a jungle.
Running your setup with a Straight Shot To Preamp "Unshielded Loom", is akin to ....running through the woods naked.
Free Willy. Well.... maybe some running shoes.
In both cases try to keep the run / loom short for best results, and with running - best not to Free Willy in May when the blackflies are hovering.
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I made the same change after seeing the nice "loom" made by Take-5 that one of you posted years ago, ordered the Cardas wire, clips and plugs and did my own, my tips on the RCA were not as nice looking, but still functional. Later, bought a second wand from Bruce and made my own new loom with Litz wire I acquired from Trans-fi (the Terminator guy, Vic), he has a smoking deal on kits with clips and reasonably priced wire. Now I can swap cartridges and/or wire much easier, currently very happy with the Litz / Ortrofon Quintet Black combo. |
Frogman, I can only second what you wrote! To hear the elimination of contacts or to compare different connectors under controlled listening tests has been my most educating experience in audio. I think the effect of contacts on sound quality are highly underrated. I guess that from the omnipresence of brass based "professional gold" contacts in a wide field of the audiophile market. Listen once, never return back.I was an anti-WBT low-budget "snob" :-) but the copper based WBT RCA connectors and the Clearaudio MPC were hugely better than any silver- or gold-plated brass connector back when I compared these (with ca. 7 identically constructed & oriented silver interconnects). Yo don't get what you haven't paid for - except for soldering directly!
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I’m with you frogman. The first wiring in an analog system is that in the arm, and the most important to improve if need be. A whole industry popped up to cure the sub-standard Rega arm wiring, but a lot of other arms need it just as badly. A single, unbroken run from cartridge tags to RCA plugs is great, but some systems incur hum problems from the unshielded internal wiring being outside the arm. Some rewiring kits include shielding sleeves for the exposed wire, which often prevents any hum problem. The delicate internal wire is very fragile, and it doesn’t take much to break it off RCA jacks, or even the Cardas RCA block, so take care. I speak from experience! |
Re "straight shot to preamp" wiring:
As just a gentle and friendly nudge to anyone the least bit curious about trying this. In my experience this "tweak" yielded the single biggest improvement in sound quality of any other tweak or adjustment to the ET2. All the other tweaks like using the correct spring compliance for mm or mc, magnesium arm wand and others which deal with resonance and which, to at least some degree, simply shift tonal balance around a bit which, in turn, may add to the impression of "improvement" in the context of a given system are not nearly as large in overall scope. The "sstp" wiring is a very significant improvement of a very fundamental nature with no downside that I ever experienced. Think about it: you are removing at least four solder joints and three connectors of different metals from the path of the tiny and fragile phono cartridge signal’s path. The increase in purity of sound, soundstaging detail and rhythmic coherence is huge in my experience. Of course the choice of wire is important, but secondary to the benefits of getting rid of all the "bumps in the road". The really committed (in more ways than one 😱) can always eliminate the connectors altogether and hardwire the wire directly to the circuit board of the preamp as I did.
Cheers. |
Hey Chris,
It's ok to throw money at things as long as you don't spend your capital. Mom told me that a while ago, and it has worked for me. After all, it's only money. -Enjoy it if you've got it.
Hey Harry,
Do you have the Calypso or Callisto. -Just wondering.
-John |
Just throw some money at it like I did John - your statement brought back memories. I used to get dropped into various companies with a team, to fix problems. The first thing the CFO would say to us after the kickoff meeting. "Ok , so tell me, how much money is it really going to take to fix this problem? " |
Harry,
Are you suffering from audio nervosa?
Just throw some money at it like I did. Don't worry; be happy.
I gave up on VTA as the Lyras are pretty immune with the cartridge top surface parallel to the LP surface.
I don't worry about loading any more either. The Allnic is fixed. I don't know what it is. Only the gain is adjustable at the SUP.
Is that screwey or what? -Really doesn't matter if it sounds heavenly!
Good weekend.
John |
This and That Harry
Hmmm, options for audiophiles. Let me see now - Lighter weights all the way out or heavier weights closer in? Tweak VTA a little up or a little down? Nudge the sub woofer volume a little up or a little down? How about the crossover point of that sub? Magnesium or carbon fiber arm wand? Wire straight in to preamp or via phono block? Now, how about that loading - 100, 1000, or 47k ohm? Oh, yes, and most of these are interdependent - change one and you have to change them all. Which to do first and which to do last. Is the tracking force still correct? Sure is fun ain’t it? Lets analyze Harry. Takes my mind off the oil stocks :^( *************** "Lighter - weights all the way out" follows physics; gives highest vertical inertia as well as following manual setup instructions. Heavier weights closer in? Opposite effect .... add enough weight close to the spindle and you will bottom out the air bearing. **************
Tweak VTA a little up or a little down?
Everyone’s setup will be different. Some cartridges don’t need much VTA adjustment. ************** Nudge the sub woofer volume a little up or a little down? How about the crossover point of that sub? I would only after setting up the system without the subs first. This assumes the preamp output does not go through your subs first, before going to your main speaker amp/s. Magnesium or carbon fiber arm wand? Magnesium for Winter duty. Carbon Fiber for All Season use. Wire straight in to preamp or via phono block? Bruce uses a straight in setup. Have never heard of anyone who uses a "straight in" setup; going back to the multiple connections. Now, how about that loading - 100, 1000, or 47k ohm? If you go straight in you can adjust the distance between the wires changing the capacitance and altering how your phono preamp reacts to the settings. This can be fun; along with the extra gain one gets when going straight in. Is the tracking force still correct?
Only with the ET2 :^) When is boating season going to start ? ?? |
I passed along my first system (circa 1972) to my younger brother who still uses it to this day. My first phono preamp and record cleaning machine went to a friend who, though not an audiophile, owns a large vinyl collection from the 60's-80's. I put him onto a new turntable and cartridge when his vintage Beogram died.He's the only guy I know who still plays vinyl.
John |
Have come across folks that consider resolving analog setups, that allow you to perceive VTA changes, a curse. What a hassle they say. They just want to listen to the music. I used to own a stock Technics SL1200 from long ago. It was passed mostly to work friends, who would hang onto it a year or two, and give it back after they decided that either vinyl was not for them (or their kids), or they just got their own table. I sold it about 1 1/2 years ago and the buyer was a young lady. She came to pick it up with her father. It had a Grado black on it, played music, and you didn’t worry about VTA.
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-Screwed up again with my address to Chris and not Harry. Maybe I should eat breakfast before reading and posting? Maybe don't end your posts with a quote, and I'll keep it straight. Hypoglycemia? -At least I can still hear.
Go, Braves!
John |
John,
I think my humor didn't come through in the printed word. I agree, half the fun would be gone without these options. But it's also fun to complain to guys who know what you're talking about.
Cheers,
Harry |
Chris,
It's the endless enigma. If I didn't have all those options, it wouldn't be fun. For that matter, it wouldn't be mine. (or me)
An old audiophile buddy of mine, now deaf, used to tell me, "don't F with it." I just can't resist.
-John |
Hmmm, options for audiophiles. Let me see now - Lighter weights all the way out or heavier weights closer in? Tweak VTA a little up or a little down? Nudge the sub woofer volume a little up or a little down? How about the crossover point of that sub? Magnesium or carbon fiber arm wand? Wire straight in to preamp or via phono block? Now, how about that loading - 100, 1000, or 47k ohm? Oh, yes, and most of these are interdependent - change one and you have to change them all. Which to do first and which to do last. Is the tracking force still correct? Sure is fun ain't it?
"Oh, heck, Harry, Just listen to the music!"
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I like that flexibility. Ah, yes John, "flexibility" ........ and let's not forget convenience. Is giving an audiophile options, a good thing ? 8^0 |
Well guys,
Sorry for my mistake. I do know who everybody is.
Harry, whatever works for you is what's important.
I never could get used to the idea of the bypass loom straight to the preamp. I'm pretty satisfied with Bruce's very tiny litz wire harness to the terminal. It's very easy to configure it not to influence the arm balance in any direction. From the terminal you can use what you want. I like that flexibility.
-No Braves tonight, and I guess I'll have to force myself to do some listening.
John, fellow obsessive |
John & Chris,
Yes, certainly, I'm using my ears. I'm using the stock ET II wiring to a phono block and 1 ft of pure silver, uninsulated interconnect from the phono block to preamp. I don't know the capacitance of the wire. Sound is, however, very transparent. As I think has already been mentioned here, loading can vary from one preamp to the next even using the same cartridge. CAT recommends 47k for most all cartridges. I may give 1000 ohm loads a shot just for comparison but I'm really happy straight in.🎶
I guess my sarcasm was a harbinger for the market. A great day and I might have been able to get that Lyra Atlas. I usually go with third row LPs. Gives me an excuse to hydrate (red wine). When I'm in a revolutionary mood I read a little Ayn Rand.🤑
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^^^ I think u mean Harry.... John. Harry - I must be in a sarcastic mood today😈 Harry The markets were in a very sarcastic mood today. A whitewash win for Wallstreet. 8^( So - for the musical fix now - my immediate play albums are arranged in 4 rows along the floor against the wall in room A. btw - Kitty likes to use them as a raised highway on the left side. 1st row music - makes me want to sing - sing out loud. 2nd row music - goes further and will even get me up and I do a little dance. 3rd row music - makes me fall to my knees and cry - hard - so hard I will get dehydrated. I will need "beverages" close by to re-hydrate. 8^0 4th row music - oh......we try not to go to this row too often - the words and music from this 4th row give one thoughts of revolting against the government .......and or the (spouse)..... same thing really, no? Well - 3rd row it is. Running with load is like running a race with your left foot on the brake ....riding it - the more load the harder you push on the brakes. Now good brakes do win races, but they end up costing you a lot more in brake parts. :^) so Free Willy I say ! Just being sarcastic .. enjoy the Allnic John. |
Chris,
Sorry the 100 ohm loading didn't work for you. Do you know the capacitance of your loom? I guess everything matters including your tastes, equipment, and listening acuity. But Mr. Carr is the designer, and I'll stick with his recommendation. He says that 47K will work, but then goes to great lengths to delineate which loading works best for each capacitance range to make the frequency response flat. Do you still have your owners manual for the Delos? I checked and discovered that the specifications for the Delos are not the same as the Kleos, though they share the same bloodline. So, just use your ears. That's what Mr. Carr advises.
Cheers,
Jolhn |
Nope, it didn't take a couple days. With the 100 ohm load I lost the impact of hammers on piano strings and fingers on strings of upright bass. I'm back to straight in at 47k Ohm and not hearing anything I don't like. At least nothing a Lyra Atlas wouldn't cure :)
Harry
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Sure John,
You talk me into trying 100 ohm load then go buy a new preamp. :)
Sounds like you have a winner. I tried the 100 ohm load. ( I surprised myself with nice clean solders.) The difference is subtle. Midrange seems a tad smoother and rounder but without bloat. Highs may be a bit tamer but not too rolled off. I may have lost a little transparency, but not sure. I'll let you know in a couple days.
Enjoy the Allnic.
Chris,
Took note of J. Carr's recommended load range starting at 97.6 ohms. Think we can hear the difference between 97.6 and 100? Just curious. :)
I must be in a sarcastic mood today😈
Harry
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Must be good to pass up on the ball game 8^0
Good stuff John.
Our Blue Jays have started out really really BAD. But hockey playoffs are here and that is part of our Canadian blood. I have coordinated my musical fixes to right after markets close and before the evening matches. Market moves dictate musical choices. hah hah |
The AQ interconnect I acquired has a capacitance of 20 pf /foot or 71 pf/meter or thereabouts. Combined with the ET-2's cap of 40pf that's about 110 pf total. I tried it today and am very happy with the improvement. When I added the new phono preamp, -whole new level, even though the load on the preamp is pretty much fixed, at 280 ohms. -One less thing to worry about. I really like the SUT concept and am unlikely to go back. The S. Korean designer is pretty slick. The new preamp is like a hotrod. No remote etc, no bells or whistles; just incredible sound. I recommend it highly, even though it's not even burned in. I'm in hog heaven, and I even passed up the Braves game to listen instead.
-John |
Just to add to my last post in followup; as I got curious and just finished talking with Gene at Take Five Audio who made my loom.
This is in regards to the ET 2 direct shot wire looms being used.
Capacitance versus Noise
Where my wires leave the armtube they are separated with distance between them. There are two reasons for this. 1) The least binding effect on the ET 2.5 travel. 2) lowest capacitance.
Now if you braid the wires you will reduce noise - but you will increase capacitance. It’s a give and take. So when discussing the benefits of low capacitance with loading the cart - a big part of the result will be the way the cart wires are arranged in proximity to one another.
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Hey Chris,
Thanks for the link to that rather involved discussion of the interaction of cartridge, interconnects, and loading. I must say I'm more confused than ever, but have learned a few things.
Has anyone taken into account the break in of the connection between cartridge and phono pre? With only millivolts on the cable, does it ever break in, and stay that way, if you believe in such things?
I got sold on a new interconnect by "Allister" at Audioquest, incorporating the DBS system. -Never used DBS before, but seemed like a good idea for this application.
I imagine it will beat my 25y/o AQ diamond IC's. An AQ water will arrive tomorrow. If it doesn't work in that application, I'll try it elsewhere in the system.
I'll get back to you about that.
John |
Hi Guys Look forward to your impressions of the Allnic John. Harry would love to check out the Nashville music scene one day ... Of note on the loading discussions. Taken from Lyra website Kleos Recommended load directly into MC phono input: 95.3ohm ~ 816ohm (determine by listening, or follow detailed guidelines in user manual) Recommended load via step-up transformer: 5 ~ 15ohm (step-up transformer’s output must be connected to 10kohm ~ 47kohm MM-level RIAA input, preferably via short, low-capacitance cable) Delos Recommended load directly into MC phono input: 97.6ohm ~ 806ohm (determine by listening, or follow detailed guidelines in instruction manual) Recommended load via step-up transformer: 5 ~ 15ohm (step-up transformer’s output must be connected to 10kohm ~ 47kohm MM-level RIAA input, preferably via short, low-capacitance cable) *********** My XV1 has a recommended loading of > 30. I have run it full out 47k with no issues. From this thread.. There were good takeaways for me from J. Carr on that thread, from quite a while ago. J Carr Generally speaking, the greater the capacitance across the plus and minus cartridge outputs, the heavier the resistive loading needs to be to control the resulting high-frequency spike. Conversely, less capacitance allows the resistive load on the cartridge to be reduced, which will benefit dynamic range, resolution and transient impact.
*************
PS. The possible frequency range occupied by the high-frequency resonant spike also includes the frequency range encompassed by LP pops and ticks, and these can likewise be of quite large magnitude (larger than any music signal inside the groove). Just as with the high-frequency resonant spike, controlling pop and tick energy is the task of the phono stage (although it is a big help if the cartridge has a low-mass moving assembly). The phono stage and cartridge can have an immense influence on how "noisy" your LPs appear to be.
^^^ It highlighted for me also, how important a role the direct shot wiring plays. I am sure it plays a big part, along with my phono stage, for the reason I am able to run with no load. Cheers Chris |
John,
Tried to go to The Bluebird for lunch not realizing they were only open for dinner. By then it was too late for reservations. Good luck with the new preamp. Let me know how it works out. I've never used a SUT either.
Harry
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Glad to hear that Harry. Did you visit the "Bluebird cafe"? I'd love to make a visit.
I'm excited about a new acquisition, arriving on Wednesday. -An Allnic 1201 phono preamp. It's tubed, but uses a transformer based input. I'll have to stick with the lower impedance loading on this piece, as the unit has a max of 260 ohms which is what Jon Carr recommends with the capacitance of my cables.
This is uncharted territory for me, as I've never used step-up transformers on low output cartridges. I hope it's a step up for my system. I'll write a f/u.
Best to all,
John |
Hello all,
Been away for a few days. Drove over to Nashville for a long weekend of live music. The venues were pretty terrific and I was afraid I wouldn't be able to listen to my system when I got home. Not so. Turned on the system, warmed up the tubes and it sounded excellent. Not live music but still sounding great. I think it does us well to walk away for a few days.
Frogman, I received the arm board. Thank you much. Going to wait a while before trying it out. I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing. The mag arm wand was a nice improvement.
John, my plugs and resistors arrived while I was gone. I'll try it out later this week but I've got nice tight bass and nice cymbal shimmer without brightness, straight into my CAT at 47k ohm. Like you, I think my ET II tweaks are showing my Delos at its best.
Harry
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Chris,Harry, and all,
I have to amend my thoughts on cartridge loading. I tried 47K over the weekend and cymbals did seem to shimmer a bit better with no downside to the bass. I believe that the tweaks on the ET-2 have enabled me to appreciate what my cartridge can do. -Thanks to you guys for that.
-John
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Pegasus, I lived with MGIIIA's for many years and, to this day, the sound I achieved with them in the loft space that they were in is the best from any system that I have ever assembled; with the possible exception of the sound from my Stax F-81's. Apples and oranges however as the presentations are very different in scale. That sound, however, was achieved only after extensive mods (completely upgraded xovers and rewiring). Your description of that great ribbon tweeter is exactly as I experienced it and I found that, as well as upgrading the cheap wiring, the most effective solution for the "glassiness" that you describe was hardwiring all the connections to the panel and the (now) completely outboard xovers and bypassing the fuses altogether including the tweeter's fuse (I lived dangerously back then) thereby removing all that nasty steel from the signal path. Transparency was greatly improved and as you point out this allowed me to better hear problems elsewhere in the system. I have been getting very interested in Maggie's again. Great speakers and IN THE RIGHT ROOM capable of surprising bass extension with an absolutely huge and very coherent soundstage. I was able to get 28hz -3db in that large space! Miss those speakers. That was all around the same time that I bought my ET2 which is the only piece that I have kept all these years. That says something, I think.
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Hi frogman, I share with you the admiration for Paul Desmond. I play the alto myself and he has +/- my ideal sound on the instrument (within the limits of my abilities, and the recorded sound as you point out).
Loading MCs: Your line of thoughts reminds me of my experiments with the Magnepan MG3 speakers with their superbly transparent, but often a bit glassy sounding tweeter. I started with the usual recommendation to put a "normal" resistor in series, but this was loosing much too much transparency (a noiseless back-ground with kind of a plentyful sea of lively information). Then I used parallelled ERO Resista metal film resistors, but the effect was not much better. Then I replaced the HF-Litz feeding the ribbon with a thin solid core wire and had success with more transparency and less "noise" and brightness. Ultimately I developped an independent, three-wired new crossover (with soldering to the ribbons... :-) which somehow integrated the superior mid/high transparency of the two-way MG 2.5 (and MG 2.6) into the three-way-MG 3.
Before these changes I had the feeling that my Koetsu Black / VdH 1 needle (Gyger upgrade) was sounding "bright".
Removing the transparency obstacles, which created stress and brightness, allowed to retrieve the VdH1 stylus information without glassyness.
I am skeptical of loading as a cure for problems created elsewhere, it's not really working in that context, it's too much of a compensation game (for me). I loose too much, gain not much.
Besides: The direction of the resistor is as audible as that of cables, as is the brand and type of resistor (and the preparation of the wires and the soldering including the solder).
To attain an experimentally "clean lab table" for these kinds of comparisons, within the context of the ultimately almost always slightly sloppy way people generally do their comparisons, seems pretty optimistic to me. |
Interesting comments on the subject of mc cartridge loading; especially from Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere and references to Jonathan Carr's feelings on the topic. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mc-cartridge-loadingIn the context of my systems over time my experience with cartridge loading has been that most of the mc's that I have owned sounded "best" at 47K. While lower values could tame possible excessive brightness or add fullness to the upper bass/lower midrange, these "benefits" were often accompanied by a loss of overall detail and linearity and a sense that dynamics were being supressed. I found that I could ultimately achieve more satisfying sound by addressing the issue of brightness or lean bass (at 47K) elsewhere in my system or by changes in VTA and slightly higher VTF. In fairness, my systems have tended to be fuller sounding than most, and I can understand how in the context of a leaner sounding system one might take the other approach. Harry, Paul Desmond had one of the most beautiful alto sounds ever; as you point out he was one of the greats. His obsession with not wanting to hear the spit on his reed led him to say what is one of my favorite quotes in jazz. When asked how he got that beautiful pure tone he replied that he wanted "... to sound like a dry martini". I think that what he was asking for from the engineers was that they not let close micing alter his natural tone which did not normally have the sound of air and spit in it. Close micing will exaggerate any air or spit in the tone, so "rolling off his feed" would compensate for that exaggeration. Ben Webster, on the other hand, used what is referred to as "subtone". He didn't want the purity of tone that Desmond had and cultivated that breathy-with-spit tone. Both great players. Regards. |
It's too bad that audiophiles abandoned bass, midrange, and treble controls in the interest of fidelity to the source. It's also too bad that many master recordings can stand a bit of tweaking. I liked my old Marantz receiver just fine for this, but someone talked me out of it!
John |
