Jonchew38, what I look in any audio component, from cabling, to electronics, to speakers, are products that reveal those hidden details in the sound that convey the emotion in music. So.... I am a lover of frequency extension but not of bass/midrange/treble bloom; I love deep bass provided it is clear, pitched and textured; The same is for midrange and treble.... I want to be able to immerse myself in the musical complexity and in the harmonic interplay, but I hate to discover that some components are playing preferences for a particular frequency band, or are caramelizing an instrument, or even worse are etching the presentation. Yes, I do enjoy quick and responsive transients, but hate excessive leading edges. A clear and filigreed treble will drive me to tears, but violins that distort and screech drive me nuts.
I have tried a few brands of wiring in my system, and by far my very favorite series has been the Shunyata Zi-tron. They have brought me a three-dimensionality and an emotional immersiveness through the subtlety of their musical detail that I have not experienced yet with other cables. They tend to do all that is important to my conception of the beautiful in music.
I listen mostly to classical music starting from the middle ages up to the 20th century, ranging from harpsichord, piano, vocal (female/male/choir), trios, quartets, and larger string ensembles, up to large symphonic works that require huge authority to sound true-to-life, and occasional jazz. |
Guidocorona. Have you ever tried the MIT Oracle Zlll(Z 3); their top of line -non networked- power cord? |
Jonchew38. I am very surprised at the lack of response.
Question interests me. Although I've heard neither it would be beneficial to hear from those in the know. |
Hi PTSS, I have listened to a variety of MIT cables at shows at dealers over the years. Unfortunately, none of the contexts made me feel that I wanted to evaluate an MIT wire in my own system. G. |
Jonchew: There are several Elrod Statement cords, e.g., Gold, Silver, Diamond. There is a big difference between them. |
There is also the new MBX2 'Musical Bridge" technology from Elrod that fits between the Gold and Diamond entries in the line; from those I've talked to that are using MBX2, the level of happiness in what they've experienced is quite huge! |
None of this cords CAN be left away ..but i dare say they CAN not compet against "BMI " oceanic statement reference..all my system is power By Bmi pcords.i don't know the work they put into their pcords but they are sublim..fantastic...beleive me...if only you have a chance to expérience this pcord now you are aware.i had to say that,i could not stat away from that...forgive me. |
Shunyata and MIT have both the same kind of properties. The both make instruments and voices bigger in proportion than they should be. In real instruments and voices are very direct and small in dimension. When you are aware of this, you would never buy them. It is that easy. I sold and owned the best MIT powercables. A brand like Purist Audio makes superior powercables. This I Judge during tests. Every single part you judge a cable for they do better. |
Guidocorona,
Would you agree with Bo1972's comments about imaging? |
Hi Sabai, I can only report what I have experienced with Shunyata ZTron Anacondas in my own system. At that time, the system consisted of Esoteric X-01, Rowland Criterion line stage, Rowland M725 monos (330W/8 per channel), and Vienna Die Muzik speakers. Shunyata ZTron Anaconda PCs, ICs, and speaker wires appeared to pass along as much signal or current as they receive upstream, without obvious bandpass filtration or overall attenuation/emphasis. As a result, my electronic components and speakers delivered in most cases instrumental and vocalist images of realistic sizes without obvious angular recession or magnification.
From my listening position, 10 to 12 feet in front of the speakers, it seemed that the angular span of the image generated by the speakers was congruent with listening to music sitting in a 4th row position. For example, a grand 9-footer concert piano “looked” like a nine-footer located 5 to 6 feet beyond the speaker grill. However, if the mike had been particularly close to the performer, like with many recordings of female vocalists, or of Lara St. John playing Bach violin solos, the angular image was congruent with the projection of an instrument or singer’s head a couple of feet away, hence larger than what is induced by most socially acceptable live experiences... Shunyata remains blameless for implied breach of virtual etiquette... The recording engineer is responsible for calibrating distance between mikes and performer.
BottomlineÂ… I did thoroughly enjoy Shunyata Ztron Anaconda, and deem its induced sonic geometries to be unimpeachable in my system.
G. |
Purist Audio powercables also can give you stunning blacks. The level in physical image of voices and instruments becomes more apparent and round. The other thing what it of a higher level with Purist Audio is the articulation of voices. Word endings on a ssss, ttt or th etc. Breathing of singers en even moving lips of singers are more obvious.
When the blacklevel is higher you get a more intimate sound as well. The same thing about the resolution and detail you can hear. The Purist powercables like the limited edition reveals more details as well.
I have heard often Shunyata cables during shows and in shops as well. I never got thrilled by the overall sound. I am a lot further in the endresult. I can create a superior physical 3 dimensional image. Same thing about details and layers of the lowest freq I can go a lot further.
You Always hear to all the parts togheter, but you get an idea what it can bring and how good it is. |
Guidocorona and Bo1972,
Thank you very much for your detailed observations. |
Comparing will make clear what you prefer. It is that easy.
Just enjoy it. |
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I have a pair of Elrod Statement Gold and a pair of Shunyata Anaconda Zitron. I use the Elrod for the amps and the Shunyata for the subs. The Elrod are more full and rich sounding, with plenty of detail and resolution. The Shunyata has a more bare-bones audiophile sound, but with excellent tight bass. Overall I feel the Elrod has a more realistic and pleasing character than the Shunyata. |
In 2006 I almost bought Elrod powercables. To be honest I bought a pair here on Audiogon.
Then I received an email from a person who owned the Elrod and said to me; You better buy the Purist, I sold all my Elrod's. I canceld the Elrod's.
The reason why I choose the Purist. Was because I had in my head want I want and need. He discribed the differences between the Purist and Elrod. He was fully right.
And these days I sell Purist Audio. And O mannnn I love their power cables.
When a client of mine will buy a Limited, I will buy a 25 th Ann. powercable. Then I will write a review about it. |
Bo1972,...did you ever actually listen to an Elrod cable of any kind? You mention 'he was fully right...' ; what Purist and Elrod models did/do you actually own and have a good amount of time listening to and comparing? It's not clear from your post that you actually had Elrod cables.... |
He was fully right about all the parts what it should give. And no I did not test it. So I cannot give an opinion about it. I believe Elrod make very good powercables.
But Purist Audio gives me all I want and need. Even more than I could dream of. |
Understood...thank you and happy listening! |
For 15 years now, after trying all sorts of cords from new and established companies, somehow I always like my Shunyatas the best, as they just let me breathe easy. Actually, I recommend highly the early generation Anacondas (the first Anaconda, the Alpha, and the VX for digital). I have these things everywhere, even my headphone system. |
The limitation of Shunyata is that they make instruments and voices bigger than they should be. When you are aware of how big instruments and voices need to be, you don't even want Shunyatas for free in your set.
This sounds hard, I understand. But creating a more intimate stage the level in realism and endresult is getting higher.
By comparing a stage with instuments and voices which are intimate against a stage with instruments and voices too big people prefer a more intimate stage.
This is a very important part for the absolute sound. This is something I want people to understand why it is important.
And that is why; hearing is believing!! |
Bo1972,
I note you have made this observation before about Shunyata cables. There are many who do not agree with you on this. |
I have owned some Shunyata power cables in the past but I don't presently own
any. The bottom line is each of use are individuals with our own personal
preference in music and what we like to hear, that we consider good listening.
Doesn't matter what power cables you own or how much they cost as long as
you enjoy the music. Sorry for being off the forum question. |
Audio is about comparing. In 16 years of time I have done thousend of tests. Because I love it so much.
One of my best friends had a concert room with a Steinway wing. Here I learned how small instruments and voices are. The intimate stage and feeling is different compared to when instruments and voices are bigger in proportion.
I don't say that people are not allowed to prefer a stage with bigger instruments and voices.
But I have proven that most people prefer a more intimate and realistic stage.
These days an intimate stage in a wide and deep stage has become my biggest succes in audio.
I never had such a big advantage to compete against other shops. At the end the best sound wins in audio.
Hearing is believing. |
Bo1972,
Your observation about Shunyata cables has been contradicted by many other audiophiles. Your observation is not universally accepted by others. In fact, your observation may actually be a minority observation. |
Audio is very personal. It is just an opinion. Here in my country the distributer of Shunyata uses the cables the wrong way.
With Pass Labs you get instruments and voices which are way to big in proportion. A brand has his own properties.
3 weeks ago I did a comparison between the KE Powersource+ against the Shunyata Hydra AV conditioner.
The KE powersource was superior in dynamics and in blacks. But also the image was more intimate and instruments and voices were better separated. Going back to the Shunyata the image was less intimate and instruments were bigger.
I don't F.. care about what people say. I use my own ears and perception. I Always want to create a superior endresult against other people. I am only intersted in the best possible sound. The rest I really don't F... care, Just proof it that you can create a higher level in endresult than I can.
The best sound Always wins, it is that simple! |
F in so is what I found about the "F"actory "unbelievable" MIT Oracle AC2 cables. $2300 of the best spent monai ((("if" bought from the very helpful Joe Abrams of Equus Audio- he must be busy-check all the ads))-- that elevated a superior system very dramatically and totally unexpectedly. If "someone" has the bux; give them a try. Just be prepared to kiss that monai 'goodbye' as it's as hard to go back as it is to go back to the fabulous, hot Mustang after driving an exquisite Ferrari masterpiece. |
Time and technique go on. The MIT AC2 was a good cable when it came out. But time goes one, and these days there are better ones. So what is the best now, can be changed all the time.
You need to improve all the time. MIT did not enough to improve. Other brands improve faster so they have an advantage at this moment.
I said it often; you need to compare as much as you can. Don't stare blindly. Open your eyes and ears.
Before owning it, the part to find the best is the fun part. So use it and enjoy it!! |
Bo1972,
You stated:
"The limitation of Shunyata is that they make instruments and voices bigger than they should be."
"Audio is very personal. It is just an opinion." |
Know your properties. Every single brand has his own properties. It is important that you are familiar with these properties.
Properties of cables influence the image of an amp/source. When you don't know them you will not understand how your image is build!
That is why comparing is so important. This makes you use properties a lot better.
When you are not aware of properties it will be a big guess. Chance for succes is a lot smaller. |
Bo1792,
You have made this same statement elsewhere about Shunyata cables -- authoritatively. Then you say it's all a matter of opinion. Inconsistency seems to rule the day. Your opinions about Shunyata are not shared by all. If they are shared by most I would be surprised. You have yet to reply to this obvious fact in a direct and forthright manner -- except to restate what you have already restated many times. |
Often sets who use Shunyata on shows have a stage were instruments and voices are too big.
It Always can be bigger like NBS ( what I sold for 4 years of time)
Listening to live music and comparing audio all the time give you a lot of infomation. You can compare it yourself. Lend a Purist Audio cable and compare it. It is that simple! |
Bo1972,
Again, your opinion is not held by everyone with Shunyata cables. In fact, I would be surprised if more than a few would agree with you on this. |
I said it before; compare them yourself. I can garantee you that they are not the best you can get.
I am Always looking for the best. For me orther rules counts. You don't know me.
Question to you: what are the properties of Shunyata compared to competitors?
How do they build their stage and what is the overall sound compared to others? |
Bo1972,
Am I going to compare a number of Shunyata cables very soon and will post a reply to this here.
I am not talking about the best. I never mentioned anything about the best. I am talking about your specific observation that Shunyata cables make images of voices and instruments unnaturally bigger. From those who I have contacted who have compared a number of Shunyata cables this does not jive with what they observe. So, there is a contradiction between your authoritative statements regarding bigger "images" and the observations of many who do not hear what you here. They do not hear bigger images. You state that this is a "property" of Shunyata cables. They state it is not a "property" of Shunyata cables. Plain and simple. |
Hmmm, I am not quite sure what kind of instrument a Steinway wing might be... I am used to a modest Steinway Model M (Hamburg) baby grand, which has been with me for the last 45 years, since I was 16... I am also fond of my daughter making music on cello... and my attempts to producing music on my marvellous flugelhorn and trumpet are admittedly risible.
For me, staging and images generated by Shunyata wires... And by Nordost Valhalla 2 wires, are perfectly congruent with what I expect from the musical instruments in my life, and other non amplified instruments that I have had occasion to enjoy in public performances.
If you Bo1972 prefer an "intimate" presentation with more modest geometries, I am delighted that you have discovered wires that satisfy your dreams... Never the less I, and several fellow lovers of music, prefer our own particular kind of audible nirvana.
Guido |
In my opinion, people who sell audio should excuse themselves from this thread. Their opinions are hopelessly biased and self-serving. |
I owned the Valhalla for over 12 years of time. I auditioned the Valhalla 2 a few months ago. It still has the same limitation in individual focus as the Original Valhalla has. They have improved in sound and dynamics, but it is still incomplete.
Now I own 2 Audioquest Wel Signatures I have a new level in sound. I have spoken to the head of Audioquest Europe. Because I want to do something with it. Because I want people to hear it them selves. Hearing is believing.
My focus is for 7 years now on a 3 dimensional stage with a realistic individual focus. At the end it are all the parts togheter.
That is why I want to give a presentation with all the parts togheter. Then you can give a stunning endresult. With this you can crush all other demos.
I want people to look further. Audio is about using properties togheter. Because this way you get a superior endresult. I have proven this many times. And now I am on a mission.
The best sounds Always wins, and I will proof it.
I want more live music at audio shows. More than there is now. Because for people who love music it is very important.
Distributers need to work more togheter instead of giving political demos. The endresult needs to go to a higher level.
For this there is only one option. Using the best tools togheter. Most people are sleeping, so I will do it myself.
The differences between Purist Audio and Shunyata is not only the image. But also the level in blacks and the openness in the mid freq.
In a few weeks I will write a review about the Audioquest Signature xlr cables. I can promise you one thing; It is mind blowing. It does things I never auditioned at any show. Blacks, individual focus, openness mid freq, and differences in Heights never have been this clear and obvious. |
Well Bo, I can only beg to hold a differing point of view on the exceptional wire products that I have experienced in my system.... Perhaps we value subtly different things in audio.
My apologies, but I do not do crushing of audio demos... On the other hand, I am delighted that you are on a mission, and am looking forward to reading your report on the AudioQuest wires.
G. |
Many people and I who love music and good audio are irritated by the low level and wrong approach of how audio shows are being held.
When there will be more information about differences and properties in audio tools, customer will get a much better endresult. This will give more happy people. |
Bo1972,
I have just inserted a Shunyata Python CX power cord and a Shunyata Zitron Anaconda digital cable. Images of instruments and vocals are the same as before insertion -- in proportion to the rest of the sound stage. No change. |
|
You said you just inserted Shunyata Pyhthon CX & Anaconda.
"No difference." Hmmm!
How many burn-in Hr's Before your Judgment DAY?
Tubes444 |
Tubes444,
What I meant was that the size of the images was the same as before insertion -- realistic in all respects and not over-sized. |
It depends always with which cables you compare them. You say: the image was the same as before. Which cables you used before? |
Bo1972,
Most recently Furutech and Elrod. |
Clear, because different brands have there own kind of image. The differences in how big instruments and voices are projected is huge! You can ask the question; what is the truth? |
