Eliminated my preamp with amazing results


I pulled my preamp out completely. The result's were not subtle. 

For those who stream music only... I was going from my laptop... to my DAC...to my preamp...to my amp. My preamps ONLY function was volume control. Source control not needed.

I started using Audirvana recently which comes with it's own high quality 64 bit volume control that was far better than the potentiometer in my preamp. It dawned on me that I could control volume using Audirvana and plug my DAC directly into the amp and bypass the preamp altogether. (Roon and Jriver also have excellent volume controllers) Note: Audirvana has an app download on a tablet/phone so it acts like a remote control. I'm loving it!

This not only eliminated the preamps volume control but it took out ALL the electronics associated in a preamp including some cables. A FAR more direct route. However, you must use caution and make sure the volume is controlled properly in the software since the amp will be fed wide open volume.

Having experimented with 'passive' preamps in the past (McCormack TLC-1) I thought the sound would possibly lose dynamics and bass response would suffer. WRONG!

The results were...Shocking!! Immediately the extended depth of the image was noticeably deeper. Background darker. The highs are the best I've ever heard. Pristine. The bass was dynamic, tight and most of all 'textured' in a way I never heard before. As I stated earlier the results are NOT subtle! 

This is an experiment that took a few minutes to set up and yielded the best performance improvement of ANY other tweak I've ever tried. Not anything like using a passive preamp.

Equipment used...  Peachtree DAC-itx. 

                               Preamps...McCormack TLC-1 and Melos tube preamp.

                               Amp is McCormack DNA 0.5

Understand that different components will have different interactions with each other. Your results may vary. However, IF you don't like it, it takes just a few minutes to put the preamp back in the system. Nothing to lose and lot's to gain. After hearing this, I will NEVER go back to using a preamp. 

Good luck!

 

 

gdaddy1

Showing 8 responses by lanx0003

Engaging in a discussion about the use of preamps in audio systems and sharing personal experiences to support differing opinions is a healthy and constructive approach to exploring this contentious topic. Drawing from individual experiences adds depth and insight to the conversation, fostering a more comprehensive understanding of the subject matter.

However, questioning a professional's motivations by attributing their opinions solely to business incentives can be seen as insulting and antagonistic, especially if there's no factual basis supporting such claims. It's important to engage in discussions or critiques while maintaining a respectful tone, acknowledging the possibility of differing perspectives or motivations. 

@antigrunge2, read the previous posting. The experience detailed below not only emphasizes the synergistic impact of a preamp but also underscores that its effect extends beyond mere volume control. Again, Weiss 202 is a terrific DAC...

+1 @pdreher ... with new amps (Quicksilver KT Mono’s), volume control via the Weiss DAC sounded good (detailed and clean), but a bit on the lean and sterile side. Adding a DeHavilland Ultraverve 3 preamp took my system to a new level, adding body and fullness lacking when using the Weiss direct to amps.

Here is the tally so far. Just for fun. Don’t read too much into it.

Preamp effect Positive:   ///// ///// ///// ///// (incl. Paul & OCD mentioned in tread)

Preamp effect Negative: ///// /////

 

 

+1 @pdreher   ... with new amps (Quicksilver KT Mono's), volume control via the Weiss DAC sounded good (detailed and clean), but a bit on the lean and sterile side.  Adding a DeHavilland Ultraverve 3 preamp took my system to a new level, adding body and fullness lacking when using the Weiss direct to amps.

The experience detailed above not only emphasizes the synergistic impact of a preamp but also underscores that its effect extends beyond mere volume control, a misconception held by many audiogoners here.

No offense but I think we are repeating the story telling of the parable of blind men and an elephant.  According to Wikipedia, the moral of the parable is that "humans have a tendency to claim absolute truth based on their limited, subjective experience as they ignore other people's limited, subjective experiences which may be equally true." 

For me, understanding the intricate elements inside a preamp and how they synergize with other components remains a puzzle. Waiting for a knowledgeable person to shed light on what truly enhances the system's sound quality. Mr. Paul McGowan discussed the concept of 'separation' between the source and amplifier, speculating its impact. Additionally, he mentioned the potential benefits of negative feedback in enhancing linearity and distortion performance.

Almost every major audio manufacturer designs and manufactures preamps, and PS Audio is no exception. Even a preamp only serves basic functions such as volume control and impedance matching and has no synergetic effect, it has historically been a main component in manufacturing. Criticizing Paul or Arnie for advocating the belief in the synergetic effect to boost sales is both illogical and unethical.  Keep that kind of unhealthy criticism yourself, please.

The closest reference I could find to Paul's narrative on this subject is a post he made six years ago. Essentially, his comments align with what has been underscored below, in contrast to what you have cited. Could you please provide the source?

1:35 ... after being shown that when a preamp is of a certain quality level, it definitely sounds better to have that preamp in a system than a straight DAC ...

3:27 ... so okay if you have a preamp of a certain quality then you can have much better realistic musical sound and Arnie Nudell was the first person that really showed that to me ...

 

@gdaddy1 Paul summarized very clealy..." if you're not able to afford something as good as a BHK preamp($7000)DO NOT put a lesser preamp between the DAC and the amp. Go direct DAC to AMP" "it will sound BETTER".

Paul did not explicitly state that it had to be the ’BHK’; instead, he suggested a preamp of a certain quality, akin to the BHK with which he had experience. His remarks from that time align with our own findings and validations with our equipment.