Electrovoice Duchess IV in California

Bill,

lewm generally avoids potential problems, nothing wrong with that, but he writes as if anyone would be crazy to consider these.

You and I take more risks. To see and listen first, at that price, I don't even need them but I may move to Calif.

Did you see my other post, I exchanged one of the 15W woofers and removed the L-pads yesterday.

Building my new speaker cables today!

We'd be listening and toasting a sale if I lived near you!

shotor

I have custom enclosures with all electro-voice drivers from 1958, mine has 15W woofer, 37 lbs. Which one do you have that weighs 48 lbs?

these Model Six are near me, about 1-1/2 hours away. 18" woofers 1/2" thick foam cone. I am chaining myself to the wall so I don't borrow my son and his SUV.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Electro-voice-EV-Model-SIX-6-speakers-mid-century-RARE-HTF/15435153...

I/we have been discussing L-Pads, purists hate them of course, but, they do not realize that these vintage speakers were designed with L-Pads in center attenuation for normal rooms, and then less attenuation for dull rooms, more attenuation for live rooms. And: adjust to taste.

I just replaced my L-Pads with new 16 ohm ones, from Parts Express, they are big, very nice quality, except cheap plastic faceplate. They have a short shaft, not long enough for a thick back panel. I was able to retain my original recessed bronze cups.

https://www.parts-express.com/L-Pad-100W-Mono-3-8-Shaft-16-Ohm-260-261

The Model Six has a unique 5 position resistor network, see the frequency graph with the 5 curves

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/E-V%20Six%20EDS.pdf

lewm,

I'm sorry I have besmirched you.

I never really intended to purchase, just passing the awareness of them along, kind of fit the other L-Pad discussion.

I would like to hear them for sure. A pair of 18" alnico monsters, I wanted to buy them for my son, I would have had new enclosures made for him, but he said no.

I had no idea you are a Vintage Nut! OMG, I take risks, but you getting/keeping all those items is way beyond what I would contemplate. Vintage Kudos to you.

Dedication way beyond my typical inheritance/luck, and I am limited to fundamental repairs i.e. new cones, a burnt resistor, or pay someone else. I have successfully repaired nearly a dozen Teac R2R, but all cleaning, new belts, mechanical alignments, speed adjustments, nothing electrical.

Yes, thanks for helping me understand the difference between Pots and L-Pads. I successfully returned the pots (they were beautifully made), and got 16 ohm L-Pads. I searched, found some by others, however they looked like they were using/reselling the Parts Express ones, so I ordered direct from Parts Express. If lousy, simply return them. Happily they are very nice large diameter ceramic bodies, smooth and firm movement/contact inside.

Cheap plastic face plate and knob, and short shaft, too short for my 3/4" thick back panels. I had my existing recessed bronze cups which just solved the problem.

The original bronze press on knobs, and the supplied plastic ones were too large a diameter to fit when pressed deeper into the tapered recessed cup. So off to Greenbrook Electronic's disorganized wall of vintage knobs. Finally chose some small diameter ones, with too small a hole for the shaft. Drilled larger diameter hole all the way thru, now I can see the slot in the end of the shaft to verify the knob is on straight, I like that.

These speakers, all electro-voice with electro-voice 3-way crossover, like most vintage Electro-voice speaker models, were designed to have L-Pads in center attenuation position as normal (which is why they sounded so awful without them). Progressively more or less attenuation for live or dead rooms.

That Model Six had fixed resistors like you prefer to L-Pads, extending the resistor method to 5 selectable settings and 5 specific frequency graphs for each setting. That would make it easy to precisely match L to R. My Progressive L-Pads require a long and careful period of adjustment/listening/repeat to get them right. The McIntosh Mode Switch is indispensable for that process.

here's the data sheet for our woofers. they are massive, however they weight 'only' 37 lbs. The first time I moved them (they were down firing), they wouldn't budge. I put a small mirror on a stick, looked for more bolts, nope, only the 4 I loosened. I just couldn't imagine they were that heavy, up they came.

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/15W,%2015BW,%2015WK,%2015BWK%20EDS.pdf

the only difference between my 15W and your 15WK is the DC resistance. They used 10 of yours in Klipsch, and their Centurion and Georgian.

I'm bewildered why you are confused, happily we are both happy.

You have lost track, my fault because I have mixed up three discussions:

1. L-Pads for my existing 3-way speakers, all electro-voice drivers, 1958.

They, like most vintage Electro-voice speakers  originally had L-Pads. 16 ohm drivers used AT37 L-Pads. 3-way systems had two: Brilliance for the Tweeter; Presence for the Mids. Woofers no adjustments.

Middle attenuation position was 'normal', less attenuation for dull rooms, more attenuation for live rooms. Adjust for taste. 

In the L-Pad discussion, not knowing that these were instrumental to the speaker systems, many, typically signal purists, said remove the L-Pads, they are a terrible idea.

You suggested I measure ___, and replace the L-Pad with a specific resistor, 'better' than L-Pads. That would be specific, no variation over time as my ability to hear highs diminishes, or for different spaces.

I never did that. I removed the L-Pads, they were awful screechy, I bought POTS, you helped me understand L-Pads maintaining resistance shown to the crossover. I returned the POTS, got and installed (replaced) new 16 ohm L-Pads. Sound: back to Nirvana. 


2. This discussion, Electro-voice Duchess IV.

They popped up on an an eBay search. I just posted it for others and fun, it is also a 3-way, it also has a pair of AT37 L-Pads, Brilliance and Presence. If near me, I would run over to hear them. Others near enough could listen, perhaps purchase. It did lead me to do research and find that nearly all Vintage Electro-voice speakers had AT-37 L-pads.

3. Electro-Voice E-V SIX. (4 way)

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/E-V%20Six%20EDS.pdf

This popped up when researching the EV designs, most using L-Pads 

The 4-way SIX has a unique 5 step resistor network, the only EV system I came across with resistors. That was interesting, and related to your preference to resistors. Because it was 5 selectable settings, they published 5 frequency graphs, also very unique.

And 18" woofers, 1/2" thick foam!

And Near Me!

Those tempted me quite a bit, I would build new custom enclosures. But when I cooled down, not for me. Then I realized, they would fit perfectly in my son's room, as is, then move the drivers to new enclosures I would have built for him. He said no.

Go hear them anyway?  Chain me to the wall.

It's all perfectly clear to me, now.