Electrocompaniet owners

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&1041348528&openusid&zzTok20000&4&5#Tok20000

Bob, all I have to say is their EMC-1 mk2 may be the best product that Electro makes. And even at that, I would never buy from a company who's distributers treat customers poorly. Please see the above thread.

Anyway, there are TONS of better amps and preamps and integrated amps out there that are better than what Electrocompaniet has to offer. Especially preamps... Electro preamps have a lot to be desired in every aspect from sound to build quality. Their amplifiers are at least built pretty well.

Tell me how much you want to spend, and I will make a suggestion on seperates of an integrated amp that will knock the socks off (sonically) of any Electro gear. It would also help telling us your speakers and approximately how much amplification power you need and what you are usining now.

KF

Subaruguru: $800 retail for parts that cost less than $80!!! This should tell you something about EC. How much do you think are the parts for an entire EMC 1 mk2 UP?

Ernie, all I have to say is what are you going to do the next time they offer an upgrade (give em a year)? I hate saying this, but I think EC as a company handled this incorrectly. They should have asked you to keep this transaction ($80 for the $800 upgraded parts) private, and not post it on the net.

This sets a bad president for EC. Think of how owners of the EMC-1 mk2 are going to feel after they find out the specifics of this deal. First of all they are going to know that they would be paying around (including an hour of labor) five times the price of the parts for the upgrade + labor if they have the EC Distributor do this upgrade. This is a complete rip off. Second, they will be wondering (if they to have a grey market unit), if they can follow the same coarse of action you took Ernie to get the kind of deal from EC on this upgrade. Thirdly, people who bought their EMC-1 mk2's from a dealer in the US will probably wonder if their is any way for them to get the same deal as well.

If I were the EC Distributor, I would be a bit upset at EC for not instructing you Ernie to not air the specifics of this transaction to the audio public. I know it is going to cause him heart ache later down the road.

I beleive in being honest, but offering up information like you have Ernie is going to cost you down the road. If you ever have to deal with the EC distributor again, you may find yourself totally blacklisted (and for discussing the specific costs of the parts for that upgrade, he'd probably be justified).

If I were EC, I would have charged you $600 to $800 for the parts just to be fair to all the other US EC EMC-1 mk2 owners (or at the very least they should have made you sign a non disclosure agreement about the transaction).

But as I have stated before, EC gear is way overpriced, and Ernie has independantly confirmed it.

KF

Unsound,

I am all for freedom of speech. And it is not collusion for a manufacturer or even a dealer to request that you not announce the price you paid to the public for a particular item. Especially if someone is getting something AT COST for 20% of what everyone else is getting. Manufacturers do their best to conceal their exact cost on their products. This information is CONFIDENTIAL to a manufacturer. They do not want the public to know this confidential costs. And the public really does not have a RIGHT to know (no laws state that a manufacturer has to inform the public of their costs). So where is the collusion? Non disclosure agreements are signed all the time in the business world. Many times if I am talking to a manufacturer of a specialty wireless telecommunications product (I am in wireless), we have to end up signing an NDA. This is simple business. We cannot have them talking about our system specifics to others and they do not want us discussing their products or pricing with others.

EC IMHO SHOULD have charged Ernie more to preserve the integrity of their product and the integrity of others who are going to do the upgrade of the product in the future at full price. By charging Ernie 20% of retail (and Ernie effectively posting it online), EC has made a serious error in judgement. If I were making the decision, I would have charged Ernie $500 to $600, basically $200-$300 off for his time, effort, and because he is going to do the installation. This would have at least preserved EC some integrity.

Think about it.... How would you feel if you had a EMC-1 mk2 unit and wanted to get it upgraded now????? You take it to a dealer and he says the upgrade will be $800. You say, I know that this guy at Audiogon got the parts for $80, and the labor cannot be more than an hour or so. Why should I pay $800 for something that costs Ernie $80 or so + his time to do the upgrade?

Personally if I had an EMC-1 mk2 and wanted to upgrade, I would be very upset. Luckily I sold my EMC-1 mk2 over a year ago.

Back to collusion. Just because a manufacturer tries to not let the public know their exact part costs, this is NOT collusion. This situation is very much like being employed by a company and the relative salaries. Any company will tell their employees DO NOT discuss your salary with your fellow co-workers. It is NOT collusion for a company to keep people from discussing and finding out other employees salaries. This is confidential information, and knowing another's sallary can only really lead to negative situations. It is the same thing as knowing the exact costs of the parts a manufacturer pays for a particulat item. This information should be considered confidential by any manufacturer. If the public knows the exact costs of components a manufacturer makes, it can only lead to negative situations for the manufacturer.

Personally, I am happy that they solved Ernie's problem. I am even happy that Ernie got a heck of a deal. But I feel a bit badly for other EC owners who will have to pay ECs 500% mark up on the parts and labor if they want to upgrade their EMC-1 mk2's in the future.

I am just glad I do not own any EC gear now because if I did, I would sell it on principle alone. People representing EC handled this poorly from day one, and it does not surprise me that EC is also making mistakes in solving this problem.

KF

Ernie, believe what you wish. You are personally involved in this endeavor. Plus you love your EC CDP. These two facts gives me pause to consider your perspective slanted. I am trying to look at this from a neutral perspective. BTW: Euro list of the player when the EMC-1 mk2 first came out was $2k US. I know this because I have a friend who got one over in Denmark when they first came out. Pause and consider that for a sec.

I have no animosity towards you, but if I had any EC gear, I would sell it in a heartbeat. I am glad that you got your situation resolved, but I think you crossed the line when you posted specific prices online. As much as I value that information, if it were me, I would have had a bit more discretion. Call me old fashioned, but if you noticed, when I have a beef with someone and I take it online, I do not name names. Proof of this can be seen on a thread I did a while back:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&1036622016&openusid&zzTok20000&4&5#Tok20000

Anyway, Ernie, your posts here at Audiogon will have repercussions (some will be negative) for both yourself and EC. If you doubt this, just wait until the next upgrade comes out for the EC player. What will you do? Go to the distributor who you drug through the mud online? Go directly to EC again? You put yourself in a tough postition. But who knows? EC could really like you and give you the next upgrade for their cost as well... I do not know what will happen, but your posts here at Audiogon will effect transactions you will do in the future. This does not even cover the unlikely event you decide to sell your player.....

Anyway, I am done with this thread.

So good luck!

KF