EL34 & 6L6 characteristics

Yes Almarg , you are correct . I am looking for one tube that will combine the characteristics of both the EL34 & 6L6 . I want this tube to be able to be used in my current amp , a Primaluna Prologue II .

Analogluvr ;
Yes these 6L6's do have bass but not as much as EL34's and the 6L6's are nowhere near as warm as EL34's . The warmth is the most important thing that I want to add to the 6L6 characteristics .

Thanks to all for the response , please keep it coming .

Mikirob ;
I have rolled the small tubes to Mullards for the ax's and radiotechnique for the au's and they made the biggest difference for me . I have lived with the EH EL34's for quite a while .
How plentiful are those Shuguangs and Siemans 6CA7's ?

Thanks

Joe ;
That's interesting , you are saying that EL34's should show quite a bit more air and delicate detail than what these EH's are giving me ?
I did get a matched pair of JJ EL34L's , that 'test' good , but am hesitant to try them as I have heard some real horror stories ! HMMM .
I also have 4 Ruby EL34LCZ's that I understand are rebadged Shuguang's .
Thoughts ?
Thank you

No Jperry , I have not . How do they compare to these others ?

Happy tunes

Joe ;
" and (too muddy) EH tubes." Now that kind of rings a bell here . I really liked the EH EL34's warmth when I was looking for that . But now that I hear the clarity and delicacy of these 6L6's ...ding ding ding !

On the Shugang's...from what I have been told , these Ruby's & Mesa's were rebadged for guitar amp sellers so as to have an 'exclusive' brand for their store . I have read that some of the tubes , for guitar amps , were of lesser specifications due to the desirability of some distortion .
Opinions anyone ?

The more that I listen to these 6L6's the more that I am enjoying them ! Tommy James & the Shondells just came into my room and are playing Crimson & Clover !
Man I love this stuff !!!
Happy Tunes

Joe ;
No , unfortunately the EL34's are Ruby EL34LCZ with what appears to be a black base !
The JJ's are EL 34L's with a Tube Depot paper bias label on each base . I have 2 tubes packaged together with a sticker identifying them as a matched pair .

The Mesa Engineering are 6L6 GC and under the Mesa logo is STR 430 . These are listed on the base as 'handtested in amplifiers and computer matched' . I have 3 box's of matched pairs and 3 individually boxed tubes .

Mikirob ;
Glad to here that you are still enjoying the Dynamo .
Have you tried any other 6CA7's ? If so , which ones ?

Thanks

Thanks for the info Musicrazy .

Just an update while listening to the Mesa 6L6 GC 430 ...
I called Mesa today and they are claiming Sodek In Russia as the manufacturer of these particular tubes . It seems that each iteration of the 4x0 designation , 430 in my case , denotes a different manufacturer .
These tested out near the top of the scale so I am thinking that they are unused . They did open up a little after about 6 hours of initial use . The Mesa's seem to do everything , extension , detail and separation a little bit better than the EH's but are lacking in enjoyment/musicality .
As my wife puts it "they don't have any sparkle or make you want to get up and dance like the EH 6L6's did ! These Mesa's are for sitting back and relaxing." I have noticed that on the CD Clapton & JJ Cale I can hear two distinct voices singing , something that I have not heard with the EH 6L6's or the EH EL34's .
I will give these Mesa's some more burn in time and then try the Ruby EL34L's (Shuguang).

Happy Tunes.

Just an update to this thread .
After having tried some more variants ie. the reddish/brown
based Shuguang EL34's and the Black Treasure 6CA7's , the BT 6CA7's are the winner ! They embody most of the traits that I was seeking . Air when it is present , defined bass , really nice midrange with just enough warmth and the best definition that I have heard from any power tube . Referencing the above definition of the voice separation , not only do I get the best delineation between the voices but now I can also hear JJ Cale missing his que and coming in late ! This is with the stock Shuguang input and driver tubes !
The only thing that I am missing is some sparkle and top end extension . I am hoping to find these with some small tube rolling .
Thank you all for your help with my quest .

Ryriken66 ;
It uses 12AU7's .

I agree Atmasphere .
But I really found a pleasing and significant difference with the 6Ca7's . With these I am most of the way there and hopefully don't have to spend a bunch for NOS tubes to make bigger changes .
For instance...I have been working with some KT-120's that I find quite pleasing in the extremes but quite lacking in the all important midrange . Rolling all of the usual small tubes has shown me that I preferred the Amperex sound . Now I will try the better Amperex trying to get the little bit that was missing with the lesser grade Amperex's that I was experimenting with .
With these 6CA7's , I may be able to get to the same place with some much less expensive Cifte or some Spanish 12AU7 variants to get the sparkle and top end increase that I am looking for .
It's all about the infinite possibilities available and trying to find that right combination . And maybe pick up a little education along the way !

Ryriken66 ;
I just ordered a pair yesterday .

Martykl ;
What are you using for a preamp ? If it has tubes , what are they ?

No . 5814 is a new one for me . How do they compare to the others ?
I tried some Spanish 12AU7's , they are not what I'm looking for . Will now try some of the better Amperex and 7316's .

Thanks Ralph , very much appreciated !

I wanted to update this tube rolling adventure .
What started out as a power tube rolling experiment mushroomed into a full blown power , input and driver roll .
Quite educational and grueling !
I tried the Cifte's as input tubes , thinking that I wanted to only increase the top end characteristics of the BT 6CA7's , they did not work out . They did what they were purported to do but at the expense of some other characteristics .
I tried the Amperex longplate 12Au7 with foil 'D' getter and found them to be a bit flat and unexciting ! I am a little puzzled and disappointed by these results . They did all of the other things quite well . This was with the PL 12AU7 as drivers , which I find to be a nice neutral tube . These PL's are the only drivers that did not seem to add or subtract from what the input tubes brought to the table.
I then switched out the four PL drivers for 7316's . Things were much better but still a little muffled with a slight loss of air .
In went the 7316's as inputs and here is what I was looking for ! Air , detail , separation , delineation of voices , sparkle and the all important musicality . I then put a pair of 7316's as drivers with the previous PL 12AU7's and this gave me just enough additional warmth to complete the mixture !
So the final mix in my Primaluna Dialogue Premium integrated amp playing through my Reference 3a Di Capo I speakers is Black Treasure 6CA7 power tubes , 7316's in the input section and two 7316's combined with two PL 12AU7's in the driver section .
I would like to give a big THANK YOU to my tube monger and friend Bigshutterbug . He loaned me a myriad of small tubes to experiment with . Very generous with his time and inventory . Others here have also offered their expertise that is very much appreciated as well . Thanks to all !
So as not to duplicate things , the first part of my small tube adventure can be found here

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1430370680&&&/Primaluna-Rolling-pre-tubes-question- .

If anyone can make the jump to this thread easier , please do so .

I provide this as a helpful 'starting' point for others . This is my equipment , my ears , my tastes and my room . Others , young & old , have heard this set up and liked it but still others may not .
Good luck