DynAudio C4 _ Explodes my sonic perspective

Rower30, Well done! I have the C2s. I, too, auditioned the same speakers you listened to, and them some... I always returned to the Dynaudio sound. A friend brought over his Vandersteen's 3aSignatures to audition on my 2-channl. Again, I,too, felt that something was mission in vocals. My C2s are driven by Theta Digital CBIII and Balanced Audio VK-6200. I don't think that I could ask for anything else...aside from maybe C4s...or even the Evidence.
Happy listening!

I really liked reading about your adventure auditioning new speakers.

Have you taken the plunge and bought yet?

I consider Dynaudio to be a modern gold standard in regards to sound. You may pay for it, but most all Dyns I have heard are hard to fault in their respective class.

I wonder if you have heard Dyn's mid-cost Contour line and if those might fit your bill?

The line that has helped keep me out of more expensive waters in the quest for my perfect sound is OHM Acoustics.

When I was looking to change from B&W and Magnepan a few years back, I started with the Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkIIs. These met my expectations for several months. Then I decided I needed to either add a sub or go more full range to get the lowest octave and do it well.

HAving owned OHM speakers as well for many years, and reading good things about their latest line, I decided to give their latest models a try before doing anything else. I picked up a pair of "Super" Walsh 2's, which were OHMs latest (at the time) 100 series 3 drivers on vintage Walsh 2 cabinets for ~ $600 used on A'gon. These appeared to be the right size OHMs for the 12X12 rooms the Dyn monitors were used in.

I found the OHMs did the job of matching the sound of the Dyns but with a more extended low end perfectly. I then also acquired an additional pair of OHMs biggest and best OHM 5 series 3 speakers for my larger L shaped basement room (sounds similar to yours).

I've been running the Dyns and OHMs now for several years in my 3 main listening rooms. I audition other high end systems regularly whenever I can, but have had no temptation to change. PLus I look forward to listening as much as I can, generally many hours per week, which is always a good sign.

OHM sells factory direct and offers an extended in home audition period. The only cost to a buyer if things do not work out is cost of return shipping. Maybe something worth considering if you are looking to perhaps save some $$$S and have not bought yet.

Then again, if you like and can afford the big Dyns, and they have won your heart, then by all means go for it. Dynaudio speakers are still a gold standard for me, and I do not throw that title around loosely.

Based on my experience with a similar shaped room, I think the Dyns could work well in your L shaped room.

The OHMs are more omnidirectional and do imaging differently than directional box designs.

In my L shaped room, they tend to fill the wider portion of the room where they stand just a couple feet from rear and side wall with their sound stage, kind of like a stage at a live show. This makes for a very involving and low fatigue listening experience at any listening position.

More directional models will tend to fire sound more directly into the length of the room. Not a bad thing, but different. I have used some smaller directional box designs in my room prior (OHM and B&W) and also MAgnepans. I was never able to get things quite right in all regards. The more omni directional OHMs solved that problem plus I can listen from most anywhere in teh room without loosing much. This may be harder to accomplish with more directional designs, but may be possible in a long and narrow listening area.

Thanks for the responses.

I took the plunge and got the DynAudio C4 Series II signatures. I never listen from or go into the short leg of the "L" shaped room, so the forward fireing speaker design isn't an issue.

I about wet my pants writing the check, but everyone seems to agree with the C4 sound. I was really surprised, to say the least. The can sound almost Martin Logan like with seemlessly electrostatic midgrange integration, except the bass is also 100% integrated and dynamic, too.

When I first auditioned, the speakers were brand new (less than ten hours on them). When I went back, holly bass batman! The low-end was fully fleshed out and deep. Pink Floyd Dark side of the moon..ya baby!

Having said that, the weak spot is maybe too much on records that I have that are too much on the Quatro's, too. I'd bump it down a touch if I had a bass knob on my pre-amp. Now having said THAT, the bass is so good that it is very listenable, though. So it's more of a commnet than a deal breaker of any sort. Accuracy may be a touch lifted, but it is still not a bass "peak" sound. But do these go DEEP!

I'll have to report back on what these actually do in my room. I know others may want as much info as you can get on CLASS A (more finiky) speaker set-ups. But dog gone, the two momo amps and speakers all need to break-in to be accurate. I figure 50+ hours easy before it's an accurate situation to even comment on. Some say 120+ hours for the amp bias to settle down. Turn on the Sony radio and leave for work every day for two weeks, then stick my head in the basement!

So they are ordered. Figure six week out...rats.

Rower,
More than a year out, I am wondering how you feel about the C4s in your room. Any changes, pluses or minuses you didn't anticipate?

Thanks for your thoughts on the journey, too!

Well, I have them with about 200 hours time break-in. They are (as were the Quatro's) really strange during break-in. Remember, I changed the amplifier, preamp and speakers at the same time. The pre-amp was in my Quatro system, so I know the XP-10 is generally a very detail oriented pre-amp with a softer bass response compared to the MAP-1 used with my Quatro's.

That said, the speakers went from BRIGHT (first listen) to veiled (maybe a hundred hours) to an odd BEAMING midrange that went literally straight into the room and had NO dispersion up or down. You could move your head in, then out, of the BRIGHT beam of sound...ODD is an understatement.

What was it? I haven't a clue. Could be the amps or the speakers or both going this way and that. But noiw, the speakes and amps seemed to have settled down and are very listenable. I can say that the C4's couple energy into the room like crazy. I mean this in a good way.

Most speakers are best in a sort of near field sitting position (Quatro's) where you are about set-up in an equilateral triangle with 7 or 8-foot sides…seven or eight feet between the speakers, and about seven or eight feet from YOU to each speaker.

The C4's do NOT like this. The imaging is good, but if you get BACK away from the speaker some, maybe to a fifteen-foot distance from you to each speaker, the imaging is MUCH better. The Quatro didn't like toe-in in the near field set-up, the C4's likes some toe-in.

I have the C4's about seven feet apart, and sit fifteen feet away from the front plane of the speakers. The C4's are 5.5 feet from the rear wall, and three feet away from the one sidewall. The left speaker is OPEN to the "L" end of the room. So, even at fifteen feet away from the speakers, I have about twenty feet of room behind me. The room is 39 feet long and 13 feet wide and 8.5-foot ceiling.

Once you realize that the C4's are really able to fill a BIGGER room (mine is over 4,000 feet squared) the comments on the speaker all make sense. Even sitting back away some, the C4's is RIGHT THERE imaging. The effortless solidity of the imaging make the left to right sound seem HUGE.

I haven't gotten the SMcAudio RDL-3000 (well, it' and RLD-1 I spent $3,000.00 on!) back just yet, so I can't comment on the bass. The XP-10 continues to be excellent above 200 HZ, but is softer than I like down low. What I can say, is the C4's will pressurize a room with male vocals and send them right into your chest! Put a Gordon Lightfoot CD or album on, and you resonate to his voice deep inside you! The C4's just flat couple to the room and takes control. And this isn't at 100 dB either. I listen at maybe 60-85 dB average SPL.

I have never heard a speaker that can do this in the midrange in a room like the C4. It is simply fantastic. Sure, the OSYSSEY MONO KISMET amplifiers can't be too bad and get a sound like this out of the speaker. No, the KISMETS aren't super expensive amplifiers, but WOW, they sure sound good for the money! They are smooth and effortless sounding on the C4's and are very good for solid state amplifier. I'd say it is probably much like a Steve McCormack platinum modified DNA-225. I say this because my STOCK DNA-225 was harsher sounding than the KISMETS, and the reports on the DAN-225 platinum modifications are remarkably like what I hear in the KISMETS. I do like Steve McCormack electronics, too. This is why I sent an older RLD-1 to him and let him uncork the sound in a good design held back by cheaper parts.

Once you get past the C4's superb midrange coupling to the room, the highs are just not there. Not there? Yes, they are so good you just don't hear a tweeter, you hear MUSIC! This is the way it is supposed to be. If you like to hear each speaker, you won't like the C4's. The are a disappearing act. The driver integration is excellent.

The go DEEP all right, but the XP-10 holds it back (It did on the Quatro, too). So I can't comment on the bass just yet. To be fair, if you listen, or like, a firm but not overpowering bass, the XP-10 delivers the goods. Me, I like the bass to beat me up if it is supposed to! The C4's did that with the right pre amp when I auditioned them. Was it too much bass? NO, it was dynamic and properly fielded bass that fit the remarkable midrange energy.

OK, what's not to like? The Quatro had a MAGIC female midrange that is so far impossible to beat. The time and phase alignment of the Quatro allows a superbly layered front to back sound that almost lets you see the vocalists tonsils. The C4 gets the width, depth, height, and energy more correct in size and quantity but it can't capture the layered front to back micro dynamics that the Quatro can. The ability to form a near field halographic layered image is a Quatro strong point. It can not be denied.

The Quatro with those SUPERB sub amplifiers, and equalized to your room, and with 250 watts of class B power go DEEP in spades. The C4 excels in POWER and dynamics, but the Quatro can roll out the bass floor all the way to hell if need be. Bass down LOW is always a noodle or string being pushed up hill, it tends to "flow" and flow it does from the Quatro...and in the most beautiful way. The bass could be picked up in buckets it's so thick and deep.

The C4's bass is more like Jason from Friday the thirteenth coming into the room, takes his chain saw and slices the SOLID sounding bass up into cubes and start tossing them around on you. I'll have to see how the RDL-3000 (OK, RLD1 platinum) does down low on the C4's...but the Quatro may be hard to beat way deep (think MOVIE soundtrack thumps and bumps).

I LOVE the C4 II signatures! The overall sound is OPEN and expansive and really fills a large room correctly. The smidgen they give up to the Quatro is missed, but the improvement in OVERALL presentation is superior. The C4 II is far more integrated top to bottom as a single "speaker".

A speaker I DO NOT want to hear, would be the Vandersteen MODEL 7's. This speaker may capture all the C4's abilities, and add back in the wonderful female midrange layering and superb bass. THAT would drive me nuts wanting them! The seven's need POWER and electronics, too. The sevens for the price are probably the deal of the century, but I'm a lot poorer in the century that they were created in, darn.

So I can't afford the sevens, and the model 5 Carbons are also too expensive. So I moved up to the C4 signatures and couldn't be happier in my room, and with modest electronics, too. And, they DO NEED ROOM. These aren't near field speakers. No, they don't need a stadium, but ten feet or MORE from the line between the speaker and your chair seems more like it with the C4's.

So in the middle to high teens, the C4 series II is a great product. The speaker is very colorless, it's like hot water (I said like, NO SPEAKER IS COLORLESS!!), it turns into what you ADD with electronics. The Quatro was a little like green tea, it had a great warmth to the sound that was ideal. So you need to watch electronics with each speaker. But, you can not REMOVE the Quatro sound where the C4's is what you play it with more so. It can go from brighter to warmer, your choice.

The ODYSSEY KISMET mono amps are a good old-fashioned basic analog design improved over the years. They have HUGE capacitor banks and transformer (they are heavy) and they have a TON of current delivery and match the C4's very well. Heat isn't an issue, they just don't get warm, are DEAD quiet, and you never notice you have amplifiers, just music. So their neutrality is good. I use less than 30" of Groenburgh Quatro reference extreme speaker cable as the amps sit right by the speakers. You can buy KISMETS in Stratos cases and save some money if you want to, Klaus builds to suit. Mine are deep maroon red front and top panels with black heat sinks along the sides, and are strikingly nice sitting on the floor by the bordough (maroon) C4 II signature speakers.

KISMETS have a smooth effortless and nice sound that isn't my sonic bottleneck, I need a dynamic harder hitting preamp! These amps won't be on Audiogon soon, sorry. I won't argue $10,000 SS amps isn’t better, but I will argue that there is little the KISMET mono amp leaves on the table compared to ANY amp in their price range. And probably, will be near the top of the heap of amps costing much more through distribution channels. It turns out that they were a very easy decision, a solid piece of quality electronivs at a nice price. Doing it very well for cheap is hard to do till the KISMETS make it "sound" easy.

I'll have to comment on the RLD-3000 (you should know I call the platinum RLD-1 this by now!) in a separate post after it works in some. But again, I went for a BASIC superior circuit uncorked with better parts by the man who should know what to do. Doing it well for cheap is hard, till you find the real audio pros. Steve McCormak is the real deal.

You may ask WHY I sold my MAP-1 and DNA-225 when I could have SMcAudio modded them. Good question. I sold them with my Quatro's to a friend who can't afford what I can. I have a soft spot to help someone out less fortunate than I, and who truly loves to listen to music so I let them go, knowing they will make him happy, and HE can later as his finances allow, upgrade them. But darn, that MAP-1 sure was good on the low-end of not as open as the XP-10. Steve assures me he's going to fix that. The KISMETS sounded (and I was right) like the best way to get two mono amps that excel at what modded McCormak pieces do...and maybe better. The C4's II's will rip a poor amplifier apart and leave it for dead sonically. I hear music with the KISMET monos.

Great review of the Dynaudio C4's.
I heard the C4's at the Stereophile show in 2002 and they sounded phenomenal.
Here's what i said about them in 2002. Its at the top of the page.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1023078723&openflup&14&4

By the way, did you see these Dynaudio C4 speakers with the gloss rosewood cabinet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui_q4M_TV4A

I love the C4's, but they do have limitations. I added subs, as I like a more powerful effortless low bass than they C4s do by themselves. True, everyone comments on the great bass they have. Yes, the key is what they "have". I miss that bottom octave they don't have, though. And, They do like a good amp. I ended up with a MOON evolution W-8, when a person traded up to the new 870A model. I had a good price offered on a real nice amp so I went for it.

The W-8 is over double the power of the KISMETS, and is decidedly better controlled played harder. Still, the KISMETS have a wonderful sound where they do well. Yes, they could be called "colored" ever so slightly, but in a VERY good way. The W-8 is a purely transparent amplifier if there ever was one. It sounds more like the source (to good or bad effect) on the C4's.

The W-8 excels at microdynamics and detail. Want to hear the sound of the room? No problem. Want to hear every nuance of every sound in a recording? No problem. Want to hear the harmonic overtones of a tube amplifier...BIG problem!