Are you adjusting VTA for 180 gram vinyl?
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It is actually set for 200 gram vinyl. |
I have the Birds back on, raised the VTA slightly, it sounds much better! I am starting to like it! |
What do you mean by "heavy sounding"? Can you elaborate?
I'm in agreement with Chashas1 - this is a delightful recording. And I am also wondering if maybe something is wrong with your setup (and maybe your friend's too).
The other thing it could be is personal preference. Each of us favor different things. That's why I asked you to elaborate on "heavy".
I've already expressed how highly I regard the Speakers Corners Mercury reissues. They get tone right in my opinion, while the Classics don't even come close. I just threw on The Birds. My gosh is this wonderful. I guess I could see how the opening section might be said to be "heavy". I'd call it "full" though, and I'd mean that in a positive way.
Try not to allow your past experience with other Speakers Corner reissues to bias you. I didn't care much for their Deccas. But their Mercs are a different beast. The Mercury sound comes through fully with these. And these are among the finest recordings ever made. |
I raised the VTA and it did make a difference.
When I say heavy, squashed sounding I guess, no air around the instruments. I wonder what the cutting angle is on the Speakers corners reissues.
When I raised the VTA, it sounded much better, but now my other records do not sound right to me.
These do sound better than the Clemencic Consort reissue. That was dreadful.
The original mercs had lots of air, at least the one that I have that is in good condition. Bartok Suite. That is a great recording. Sounds very similar to a live. orchestra. |
sorry to laugh, but what's the cutting angle have to do with it, and would you even know it if you were told?
as I said, you have something wrong, and possibly your friends as well...it is a great recording, and pressing, and I've heard it on many systems that were properly setup.
I think it's such a shame that when one reads things like this, you can't just buzz over and listen and help someone out. I guess it shows the limits of forums.
I will say you are at least playing great music. Yes, the Bartok suite is great as well. |
If the change to VTA has made the Speakers Corner reissue sound good - and at the same time made the Classic RCAs sound bad, I'd say that you are now hearing things correctly.
(I'm somewhat joking)
There is no evidence here that the Speakers Corner LPs have any special VTA requirements. And the reissue of The Birds has lots of air.
How old is your Glider? Is it the original version? What arm is it mounted in? And what turntable? |
Tzh21y - what do you have the load set to in your Xono?
If you don't hear air on that SC Merc - and you don't find the Classic Bartok to be bright - it could be that you have too much load on your cartridge. |
I am breaking in new innerconnects. Things are starting to open up now. Maybe that has something to do with it. My friend said they take at least 50 hours to break in. I only have about a quarter of that on them
I have the Original Bartok 2nd Suite on Merc Living Presense SR90098 That sounds amazing.
The Daphne and Chloe is excellent on the reissue |
The glider is the original version. That is not the issue. I think it was the interconnects, because it is sounding amaing this morning! |
I just put on Ancient Airs, sounds great, I just bought the Stravinsky Box set. Do you have that one and how does it it sound? I am particularly interested in the Petrouchka. |
Originals always much better more air . |
I don't think it's *always* the case that originals are "much better more air". The SC Mercs have been well reviewed and some have been found to be superior to the originals. Likewise see the reviews of the recent Blue Note reissues from AP and Music Matters.
But generally, I agree that originals tend to sound better. |
This is an interesting thread. Like a lot of collectors I sometimes find it difficult to find a particular performance/pressing in nm condition at the local area.
There is always ebay and often times I resort to ebay to source particular performances on particularlabels. But this can be sometimes costly and sometimes risky.
For that reason I was happy to read a positive on the Dvorak Symph No. 2 from Classic Recs. So I surfed over to "the music.com" and ordered one online. Price was about $34.00 plus ship. OK so far. The record arrived to my door within 5 days of placing the order and in perfect condition.
The pressing itself from Classic Records appears to be a very good one. No obvious defects. Nice enough reproduction of the outer jacket and artwork. It plays quiet. Very quiet. All in all a nice pressing from Classic Records. Kudos.
Then, a week later, I happened to drive by a local record store on my way home from work. I had some time so I stopped in and started flipping through the bins. Lo and behold! What did I turn up but LSC 2489, Dvorak Symphony No. 2, Monteux/London Symphony Orchestra. nm/nm. Sometimes, luck is with us.
So I brought it home, cleaned it using Disc Doctor and gave it a spin. Because I already had the 180g from Classic Recs I was able to make some a/b comparisons.
In this case, I agree with Kennyb. The original has a better sense of, as Kennyb puts it: "string tone and tonal colors".
I'm spinning on a home brew TT (belt driven w/AC synchronous motor)and Graham 2.2tonearm fitted with an Ortofon Jubilee MC cartridge. With this little rig I can easily adjust vta to accommodate the individual record. I did notice that there was a different setting required for each of the above two records to fully flesh out tonal balance and optimize textures and detail. About 1-1/2 marks difference on the Graham vta scale seemed to do it.
So with this measure of care, I was still able to ascertain that the original pressing offers better tone and textures. In particular violins, violas, cellos. Those frequency ranges.
I don't mean to speak negatively of the Classic Records remaster on this performance. It is great to have this option. But once in a while we get lucky and score a nice original copy. In this case, my ears prefer the original. Besides, it is a true pleasure to discover an old shaded dog pressing, in the wild, so to speak, and still in near mint condition. It doesn't happen that often, in my experience.
-Steve |
Congrats on the lucky find! |
I wish I was so lucky. Congrats! |
Lucky?? As I said previously, this is not a rare record. With the one I just bought, I now have three. After I cherry pick the one I want to keep, the other two will end up in my give away pile.
If you guys like this music, do try Dvorak's chamber music. I prefer it to his orchestral pieces. The Piano Trio's or Piano Quartets on with the Beaux Art's Trio on Phillips are charming works and easy to locate. Cheap to boot when you find them. Well worth the effort. |
i have never found one in the local shops. Also, everytime I try Ebay I am disappointed. |
I've been collecting record's from the eary stereo period since the 1980's. In my collection I have almost every LSC, SR and Blueback. Here is my observation on the reissues.
The Classic LSC's have better bass and dynamics. You can hear more information. But, many of their early reissues don't have the "golden glow" of the originals. I agree with the comments that they don't sound as rich as the originals. But, to me how important this is varies. On the Reiner Pictures LP I prefer the Classic. On Venice, LSC 2313, the core benefit of the music is the string tone. The Classic pales in comparison to the original.
As time went by the Classic's improved. Their Heifetz reissues are very good. Ein Heldenleben is much better than the VICS. As some point I think they switched to tube mastering, but whatever the reason their later releases seemed to tone down the bright string tone. My personal favorite Classic reissues are the six Mercury titles. These were amoung the last titles they did and I know they were tube mastered.
Just as Classic finally began to release a truly great product they stopped releasing new titles and only gave us 200g and 45rpm re-pressings. Truly a pity.
If you are skeptical and think Classic ruined every title, listen to their reissue of Walter's Brahms #4. It absolutely destroys the original six-eye. |
Nice post, egrady... thanks.
I'm wondering what will happen, now that Chad Kassem of Acoustic Sounds wants to be the best pressing plant. Who knows what he will be releasing.... |
Tzh21y: The ease of finding one locally depends on where local is. I am fortunate to live in a fairly large metro area ~ 2 to 3 million that has a firm classical music base. There are ton's of classsical records here. You do have to be interprising on locating them, but it is possible. The other approach if you are not as fortunate as to where you live (from a collecting stand point), there are many dealers that that will have this from time to time. Even from a dealer, the record is less than what classic charges for the reissue. If the condition is not as advertised, the dealer will take it back.
Egrady: I agree with you post that classic got better as time went on. I did snag one last 45's available - the Ravel PC and it's better than the originals I have. I wish I had jumped on that ship before it sailed. I can only hope that Chad will will at some point in the future start the classic line up again.
On a different note, I have several of the ORG reissues of the London's. The are very good and are recommended. |
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Org is a company that has been doing reissues for a while. Go to Acoustic Sounds and type org in the search box and you'll see what they have to offer. The issues I refered to are the 45 two record sets of the famous Londons. In particular, the following are recomended: 1) Fruhbeck De Burgos - Albeniz: Suite Espanola 2) Ernest Ansermet - Falla: The Three Cornered Hat 3) Ataulfo Argenta - Espana! Volume 2. These are pricey but cheaper than the originals by a long shot. I compared these to the orginal London issues, and prefer the reissues. Can't say how they compare to the Decca issues as those are stupid expensive. One last thing, I heard the Marianne Faithfull - Strange Weather disc. Her voice was shot long ago and this record is a disgrace. Very very depressing to listen to this.
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