Dvorak Symphony No. 2 Classic records excellent

I will have to try one

Org is a company that has been doing reissues for a while. Go to Acoustic Sounds and type org in the search box and you'll see what they have to offer. The issues I refered to are the 45 two record sets of the famous Londons. In particular, the following are recomended: 1) Fruhbeck De Burgos - Albeniz: Suite Espanola 2) Ernest Ansermet - Falla: The Three Cornered Hat 3) Ataulfo Argenta - Espana! Volume 2. These are pricey but cheaper than the originals by a long shot. I compared these to the orginal London issues, and prefer the reissues. Can't say how they compare to the Decca issues as those are stupid expensive. One last thing, I heard the Marianne Faithfull - Strange Weather disc. Her voice was shot long ago and this record is a disgrace. Very very depressing to listen to this.

What are ORG reissues?

Tzh21y: The ease of finding one locally depends on where local is. I am fortunate to live in a fairly large metro area ~ 2 to 3 million that has a firm classical music base. There are ton's of classsical records here. You do have to be interprising on locating them, but it is possible. The other approach if you are not as fortunate as to where you live (from a collecting stand point), there are many dealers that that will have this from time to time. Even from a dealer, the record is less than what classic charges for the reissue. If the condition is not as advertised, the dealer will take it back.

Egrady: I agree with you post that classic got better as time went on. I did snag one last 45's available - the Ravel PC and it's better than the originals I have. I wish I had jumped on that ship before it sailed. I can only hope that Chad will will at some point in the future start the classic line up again.

On a different note, I have several of the ORG reissues of the London's. The are very good and are recommended.

Nice post, egrady... thanks.
I'm wondering what will happen, now that Chad Kassem of Acoustic Sounds wants to be the best pressing plant. Who knows what he will be releasing....

I've been collecting record's from the eary stereo period since the 1980's. In my collection I have almost every LSC, SR and Blueback. Here is my observation on the reissues.

The Classic LSC's have better bass and dynamics. You can hear more information. But, many of their early reissues don't have the "golden glow" of the originals. I agree with the comments that they don't sound as rich as the originals. But, to me how important this is varies. On the Reiner Pictures LP I prefer the Classic. On Venice, LSC 2313, the core benefit of the music is the string tone. The Classic pales in comparison to the original.

As time went by the Classic's improved. Their Heifetz reissues are very good. Ein Heldenleben is much better than the VICS. As some point I think they switched to tube mastering, but whatever the reason their later releases seemed to tone down the bright string tone. My personal favorite Classic reissues are the six Mercury titles. These were amoung the last titles they did and I know they were tube mastered.

Just as Classic finally began to release a truly great product they stopped releasing new titles and only gave us 200g and 45rpm re-pressings. Truly a pity.

If you are skeptical and think Classic ruined every title, listen to their reissue of Walter's Brahms #4. It absolutely destroys the original six-eye.

i have never found one in the local shops. Also, everytime I try Ebay I am disappointed.

Lucky?? As I said previously, this is not a rare record. With the one I just bought, I now have three. After I cherry pick the one I want to keep, the other two will end up in my give away pile.

If you guys like this music, do try Dvorak's chamber music. I prefer it to his orchestral pieces. The Piano Trio's or Piano Quartets on with the Beaux Art's Trio on Phillips are charming works and easy to locate. Cheap to boot when you find them. Well worth the effort.

I wish I was so lucky. Congrats!

Congrats on the lucky find!

This is an interesting thread. Like a lot of collectors I sometimes find it difficult to find a particular performance/pressing in nm condition at the local area.

There is always ebay and often times I resort to ebay to source particular performances on particularlabels. But this can be sometimes costly and sometimes risky.

For that reason I was happy to read a positive on the Dvorak Symph No. 2 from Classic Recs. So I surfed over to "the music.com" and ordered one online. Price was about $34.00 plus ship. OK so far. The record arrived to my door within 5 days of placing the order and in perfect condition.

The pressing itself from Classic Records appears to be a very good one. No obvious defects. Nice enough reproduction of the outer jacket and artwork. It plays quiet. Very quiet. All in all a nice pressing from Classic Records. Kudos.

Then, a week later, I happened to drive by a local record store on my way home from work. I had some time so I stopped in and started flipping through the bins. Lo and behold! What did I turn up but LSC 2489, Dvorak Symphony No. 2, Monteux/London Symphony Orchestra. nm/nm. Sometimes, luck is with us.

So I brought it home, cleaned it using Disc Doctor and gave it a spin. Because I already had the 180g from Classic Recs I was able to make some a/b comparisons.

In this case, I agree with Kennyb. The original has a better sense of, as Kennyb puts it: "string tone and tonal colors".

I'm spinning on a home brew TT (belt driven w/AC synchronous motor)and Graham 2.2tonearm fitted with an Ortofon Jubilee MC cartridge. With this little rig I can easily adjust vta to accommodate the individual record. I did notice that there was a different setting required for each of the above two records to fully flesh out tonal balance and optimize textures and detail. About 1-1/2 marks difference on the Graham vta scale seemed to do it.

So with this measure of care, I was still able to ascertain that the original pressing offers better tone and textures. In particular violins, violas, cellos. Those frequency ranges.

I don't mean to speak negatively of the Classic Records remaster on this performance. It is great to have this option. But once in a while we get lucky and score a nice original copy. In this case, my ears prefer the original. Besides, it is a true pleasure to discover an old shaded dog pressing, in the wild, so to speak, and still in near mint condition. It doesn't happen that often, in my experience.

-Steve

I don't think it's *always* the case that originals are "much better more air". The SC Mercs have been well reviewed and some have been found to be superior to the originals. Likewise see the reviews of the recent Blue Note reissues from AP and Music Matters.

But generally, I agree that originals tend to sound better.

Originals always much better more air .

I just put on Ancient Airs, sounds great, I just bought the Stravinsky Box set. Do you have that one and how does it it sound? I am particularly interested in the Petrouchka.

The glider is the original version. That is not the issue. I think it was the interconnects, because it is sounding amaing this morning!

I am breaking in new innerconnects. Things are starting to open up now. Maybe that has something to do with it. My friend said they take at least 50 hours to break in. I only have about a quarter of that on them

I have the Original Bartok 2nd Suite on Merc Living Presense SR90098 That sounds amazing.

The Daphne and Chloe is excellent on the reissue

Tzh21y - what do you have the load set to in your Xono?

If you don't hear air on that SC Merc - and you don't find the Classic Bartok to be bright - it could be that you have too much load on your cartridge.

If the change to VTA has made the Speakers Corner reissue sound good - and at the same time made the Classic RCAs sound bad, I'd say that you are now hearing things correctly.

(I'm somewhat joking)

There is no evidence here that the Speakers Corner LPs have any special VTA requirements. And the reissue of The Birds has lots of air.

How old is your Glider? Is it the original version? What arm is it mounted in? And what turntable?

sorry to laugh, but what's the cutting angle have to do with it, and would you even know it if you were told?
as I said, you have something wrong, and possibly your friends as well...it is a great recording, and pressing, and I've heard it on many systems that were properly setup.
I think it's such a shame that when one reads things like this, you can't just buzz over and listen and help someone out. I guess it shows the limits of forums.
I will say you are at least playing great music. Yes, the Bartok suite is great as well.

I raised the VTA and it did make a difference.

When I say heavy, squashed sounding I guess, no air around the instruments. I wonder what the cutting angle is on the Speakers corners reissues.

When I raised the VTA, it sounded much better, but now my other records do not sound right to me.

These do sound better than the Clemencic Consort reissue. That was dreadful.

The original mercs had lots of air, at least the one that I have that is in good condition. Bartok Suite. That is a great recording. Sounds very similar to a live. orchestra.

What do you mean by "heavy sounding"? Can you elaborate?

I'm in agreement with Chashas1 - this is a delightful recording. And I am also wondering if maybe something is wrong with your setup (and maybe your friend's too).

The other thing it could be is personal preference. Each of us favor different things. That's why I asked you to elaborate on "heavy".

I've already expressed how highly I regard the Speakers Corners Mercury reissues. They get tone right in my opinion, while the Classics don't even come close. I just threw on The Birds. My gosh is this wonderful. I guess I could see how the opening section might be said to be "heavy". I'd call it "full" though, and I'd mean that in a positive way.

Try not to allow your past experience with other Speakers Corner reissues to bias you. I didn't care much for their Deccas. But their Mercs are a different beast. The Mercury sound comes through fully with these. And these are among the finest recordings ever made.

I have the Birds back on, raised the VTA slightly, it sounds much better! I am starting to like it!

It is actually set for 200 gram vinyl.

Are you adjusting VTA for 180 gram vinyl?
.

I just put on the other Respighi Ancient Airs, heavy sounding as well. It was also scratched right out of the packing for the first 3 minutes or so. otherwise it is very quiet.

I took it to my friends house, there is definitely nothing wrong with his setup and it sounds the same. The last Speakers Corners I purchased sounded the same, heavy. It is a great recording just heavy sounding.

hi Tzh21y...
then something is wrong with your setup, or interaction with room...it's a delightful recording.

I just received the Mercury Living Presence Reissue and I am listening to Respighi The Birds Braziliam Impressions SR90153. Sounds good. A little heavy sounding to me so far

I ordered some of the records listed above. The Respighi, The Debussey and the Copland

I understand what you mean about the Glider. I plan to use it as a backup once I get the Lyra

Great system Tzh21y!! I owned the Glider many years ago and presently use the Xono.

The Delos will be HUGE upgrade from the Glider, I think. Among the biggest upgrades I've done is swapping a Clearaudio Sigma for the Glider. I felt this change pushed my system into the high end for the first time. Compared to the Sigma, the Glider was mechanical sounding. Once that mechanical coloration was stripped away, music took a huge leap in realism. The Glider just wasn't at all in the same league in terms of reproducing natural timbre. Instruments sounded much more real with the Sigma.

I later moved to a Lyra Helikon. This was another nice step forward, but not as large as moving from the Glider to the Sigma. I mention the Helikon because the Delos is said to be superior to the Helikon. I think you will be blown away by the Delos. And with the Delos, you will have no problem recognizging what's missing in the Classic reissues.

My favorite Mercury reissues from Speakers Corner are two that Sbrown listed: SR90253 and SR90153. The Rachmaninoff PC 3 is a stunning performance.

Other favorites include the Stravinsky box (the Petruchka is stunning), the Staker box, and SR90246 (Copland Apalachian Spring).

My comments are based on my familiarity with the original issues. I spent many years pursuing these and have most of what I want from the Mercury catalogue. So to the point, I haven’t heard the reissues. But I do know what the recordings are like and think I can make fair recommendations based on that. I am trying to be completely up front. If I think a recording is bad I am completely upfront with that also.

There are many of the discs that have been reissued I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot pole. The original recordings were crap & I don’t understand why anyone would take the time to bring a reissue to market. Case in point is SR90260 Rachmaninoff PC #2.

I have several of the Speakers Corner Decca reissues and these have been very good it that helps.

and Benz Micro Glider. I am looking at the Lyra Delos.

My system is Merlin Loudspeakers, MC275, Pass Labs Xono and X1.

I will try a couple. I was originally turned off by the Clemencic Consort reissue but it may be an isolated occurance. I also have Supertramp Crime of the Century on Spekers Corners and that one is pretty decent. I like Respighi so I will probably try those for sure.

I looked at what's available from Speakers Corner and selected a few safe choices with comments.

SR 90253 Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto No. 3 in D minor
A lovely disc that I have had a near impossible time getting a clean copy of. Another one those where the early stamper is not the best. In this case it’s the RFR6a that is primo.

SR 90281 Debussy: 3 Nocturnes/ Ravel: Daphnes & Chloe
One of the rarest of all of the Mercury’s with absolutely some of the best string sound captured on record.

SR 90199 Respighi: Ancient Dances and Airs for Lute
Charming music. This was one of the first Merc’s I was exposed to and have liked ever since.

SR 90303 Dvorak: Concerto for Cello & Orchestra in B Minor
My favorite performance comes from the mono period but still a very well regarded disc.

Mercury Living Presence: Russian Recordings
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto No.3; Rachmaninov: Piano Concerto No.1
Byron Janis: Encore
Shostakovich: String Quartets Nos. 4 & 8
Balalaika Favorites
Liszt: Piano Concertos Nos. 1 & 2

I like all of these except the Balalaika disc. This set is pricey but finding the originals in good condition will set you far more than this set.

SR90235 Liszt: Hungarian Rhapsodies 2 & 3/ Enesco: Roumanian Rhapsodies 1 & 2
Another personal favorite.

SR 90347 Schumann & Lalo: Concerto For Cello and Orchestra
Another favorite. Not all that rare but nice.

SR 90153 Respighi: Birds & Brazilian Impressions
Mentioned above – particularly like the Brazilian Impressions.

Tzh21y - It's difficult to comment on what impact your tube amp might be having without knowing the rest of your gear. You should add your system.

Having said that, I would look to the cartridge and phono stage before I'd look to the amp. A tube amp would probably be the last thing I'd suspect.

Also, it could be that the problems aren't present on your 200g pressing. My Classic LSC pressings are all 180g, and are supposedly from a different vinyl formulation. I'm sure there are differences.

I will try a speakers corner reissue.

I have not heard that one. I listened to the Dvorak again and it sounds great, not hard sounding to me. Maybe it is the amp I am using. I am currently using a tube amp. Maybe that is impacting the sound. Not sure. Does anyone know when the Dvorak was released by Classic? Is it a more recent or older release?

Chashas1 asked about LSC 2374.  I just compared the 180g Classic to the CD layer on the hybrid SACD.  To my ears, the Classic is horrendous.  The CD isn't perfect, but its sins are sins of omission.  The CD should have a fuller sound, and richer colors, but nothing it does is too offensive, and violins are easily recognized as of violins, and cellos as cellos.  The same can't be said of the Classic.  The Classic just doesn't do as convincing of a job giving the impression that a bow is being drawn across strings.  The tone and texture of this just sounds off to me - and at times the sound is just too hard or too shrill.  I think this is where I get tripped up with the Classics.  So while the Classic is better than the CD in some areas, since it can't get the string sound right I am turned off.

It sounds to me like this Classic was cut with a solid state driven cutting head, and that the EQ is off.  I believe the former was confirmed by Classic.  I don't know if they went back and recut these once they brought in a tube cutting head.

This sure is a wonderful performance.  I need to track down an original.

The Speakers Corner Mercurys are among my best sounding classical LPs.

I really would like to see someone redo the Mercurys and get the most from them. For the most part, they are truly excellent recordings.

SBrown, very thorough, I appreciate that. Thanks and I will keep that in mind regarding the Mercurys

good to know...thanks..

...you can tell an original if the color front wraps around partly to the back....

Not always so. The Merc's are the most pressing dependent label I know and early tends to be better but is not always. You have to learn to look at stampers if you want to find the best pressings of these. One example is the Birds SR90153. The RFR1 is the later pressing but looks like a nice early issue with it's deep maroon label. It's not. The eary issue is the FR1 and is much better sounding.

An example where the early edition is not prefered is the SR90300 - Prokofiev's PC #3. They sold a bunch of these and there are many stampers out there. The prefered stamper is the RFR8. The other odd thing with this disc is the RFR8 cover is a bit different on the back than other stampers. On the RFR8, there are three small pictures near the bottom of the cover. On other stampers, there are only two pictures. There isn't a color back edition of this either.

A couple of other generalizations on the Merc's. The Columbia record club editions stink. These have CBRFR or CTRFR stampers. The vendor labeled disc also tend to be substandard when compared to the non-vendor label. Just to make things more difficult, some disc's are extremely hard to find in a non-vendor issue.

I'm going to pull out a few mentioned and have a listen...

to Kennyb...would you compare the Classic's LSC 1934 Reiner to the same's LSC 2374 RCA Bartok--Music for Strings,Percussion and Celesta/ Reiner?

and to all, yes, the London orange labels can be found cheap and sound lovely...yes, the yellow ones are bad

and to Tzh21y, EVERY Speakers Corner I've heard has
been fabulous....wonderful label...

and yes, the Mercury's are great, the originals, that is...their cheap series were pretty bad...you can tell an original if the color front wraps around partly to the back.

and yes, Tzh21y, many many many of those RCA's you mention are just trashed or sound horrible and not always the best buys when buying used...

I was referring to the Dvorak when I was speaking about the lack of hardness. I am comparing other Classic reissues like the Reiner Sound and Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto with Heifetz. I like the Chesky Reiner Sound a lot better than the Classic. Scheherazade on Chesky is also better to my ears than the Classic. I have the 200 gram of Scheherazade. Maybe the 180 gram is better.

I wrote this thread because I have been quite critical of Classic in the past but this one just sounded better than any of the other 200 gram reissues I have heard.

As far as the older Living Stereo's I have purchased at the Flea Market, Ebay and the like are concerned about 95% of them sit on the shelves because they are not in good condition even though they can look like they have never been played. I have only found a handful good enough to listen to on a regular basis. I have had very bad luck with them. I have had better luck with the Londons. The Mercurys are always shot. I have one that I listen to and it is great, no doubt about it. I also had about fifty that I threw out or sit in the rack, they are just beat.

The Classics, although they sound different, for the most part are not terrible. I do get frustrated when I get records that skip the first time I play them and are noisier than they should be for $34.00. They need to get better at that. I guess the thing that frustrates most of us is that we know they could have been better. The potential is definitely there, we know it, we just cannot figure out why the engineers cannot figure it out. It will probably never happen unfortunately.

I have been leery of speakers corners reissues. I got the Clemencic Conosrt reissue and it is not even close to the Harmonia Mundi original. I never bought another one after that. It is encouraging to hear this as I will try one. Which one do you like the best? How is the Respighi?

I agree with you on Mercury Living Presence. If you want to hear what really good reissues sound like, check out the Speakers Corner Mercurys. These are absolutely stunning.