Interesting tread - just checked the Audioquest retail price book, a pair of K2 Speaker cables @ 8 feet long have a MSRP of US$14050 as of November 2011.
If what is ordered from Hong Kong is the real deal then $380 certainly is a bargain :-) This however is probably one of those "to good to be true deals" - Just to satisfy my own curiosity I ordered up a pair just to see how they are made - should be interesting.
Good listening
Peter |
Well the "mystery" is solved. I today received my "K2" speaker cables - paid $ 371 for them delivered via DHL. They came in a nice box and looked to be "real"
I decided to take them apart to see what the scoup was and this is what I found.
The cables have the "correct" color cable jacket on them Black and Silver, the aluminum bezels are silkscreened "K2"
The internal wires are silver clad copper - so here is a mismatch as the K2 is supposed to be solid silver, these are not.
I removed the bezel at the end of the wire where it split into two and cut away the heat shrink and pulled back the cable jacket - below is a wire thats labeled "Audioquest Rockefeller 3 Speaker wire" So it appears that the folks at DH gate are selling entry level Rockefeller wire relabeled as top if the line K2.
A 8 foot pair of Rockefeller have a retail price of $962 as mentioned I paid $ 371 for them - about the same as I would have paid for them if I had sourced them here in the US
So there really is no free lunch - If a deal is to good to be true it usually is :-)
As Always Good Listening
Peter
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MoFi I'd love to but don't know how/where, maybe you could point me in some direction on this - and I'll get them uploaded asap.
Thanks
Peter |
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Yes strange indeed - I've posted another picture with a lot more detail as well as description
I hooked up the wire in my system last night and listened for a few hours, its OK but slightly "lighter" sounding than my Kimber 16TC which projects more "weight"
Anyway a fun little experiment with a expected outcome - you get what you pay for :-)
As always - Good listening
Thanks
Peter |
Here is the description that was supposed to be at the picture posted on my system page the Audiogon website cuts at a quotation mark ?
Here are some more pictures of the wire - it's definitely silver plated copper and it appears to have the right geometry and size of conductors a pair of 17 Gauge and a pair of 20 gauge labeled Treble on one side of the wire and a pair of 16 gauge and a pair of 19 gauge conductors on the other side labeled Bass - the conductors measure right sized with a caliper. On each side there are a small gauge unused white wire as well as a naked ground wire that's connected to the black lead on each end. Each side have a foil shield and the 3 filler leads between the conductor leads appears to be cotton or similar thread.
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Manitunc
The wires are terminated as single wire, the bezels have "Amplifier end" and "Speaker end" Silkscreened on them.
Upon deconstructing the wires the internal wires all have marking on them indicating gauge, intended purpose and direction ie. "17 gauge - treble -> " in this case where they came terminated as a single wire cable all 4 red and black leads are twisted together out of the bezel, covered with a piece of cable flex, then terminated with a banana plug, red and black respectively.
The naked ground wire form both sides of the cable are twisted together then connected to the black terminal. In my setup I suspect that this is not an optimal cable to use as my power amps are fully differential which means that the negative node is not ground but carries signal, the cable seems to be constructed as to suggest that the negative lead is ground.
If you want to try them $ 380 would get them shipped to you :-)
As always, Good listening.
Peter |
Marakanetz
I by no means claim to have authenticated the cable form China - Iv'e merely described, to the best of my ability, its construction, from there folks can make up their own mind to what they think about it.
Good Listening
Peter
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Manitunc
They are all put back together again - looks almost like new just the outer sleeve could not be pulled all the way back under the bezel about 1/2 " thats black taped up under the bezel but- still looks very presentable.
Don't know of any other folks using this technique, silver over copper, but I'm sure its an readily available commodity from wholesale suppliers. As you pointed out the AQ site is vague on if the K2 are solid silver leads or just have a "perfect" surface silver coating.
If you want I can shoot you some high-res pictures. The photos on my "systems" page does not allow for critical inspection. Shoot me an email form my website and I'll forward you the pictures.
Good Listening
Peter |
Well - if it's too good to be true it usually is - surely rings true in this case then.
In light of above any offer I have made to loan these to anyone is hereby retracted.
As always Good Listening
Peter |
Manitunc
Yes indeed I scraped of some silver to expose copper, its also evident form looking in at the end of the conductors.
I don't think these wires are "counterfeits" in the sense as made a completely different place than legit Audioquest wire, everything just looks to "real" including the box they came in.
Theres another clue as to that its a "Rockefeller" wire when looking in straight at the wide side of the cable you see only 2 silver stripes barely any of the silver stripes on the sides, just like the picture on AQ's site of the Rockefeller. On their picture of the real K2 much more of the stripes on the sides are visible indicating that the k2 is physically larger than the Rockefeller .
Now for some pure speculation - could it be that this wire was a test run of wire that never made it to market, the "Rockefeller 3" The wire picked up by some "crafty" folks whom terminated them put them in boxes and marketed them as real "K2" because of all the similarities, ie color of jacket silver plated wire etc. Again this is pure speculation on my side.
As always, Good Listening
Peter |
Kijanki
That is another possibility but at this time i don't think so - theres to many things that are "right" with this wire. Per your suggestion i tried to measure conductance of the insulation with a Fluke 187 multimeter on the insulation with 1/2" spacing between leads and it measures infinite on both positive and negative. Tried the same on a pair of genuine Audioquest Viper interconnects I have with the same result infinite resistenace on all three leads. It can be that this "partially conductive" polyethylene would have to be measured for conductance with for an example a "megger" (instrument used for measuring ground faults in electrical installations, that measures at a much higher voltage - 1000V)
So I'm going to suggest something crazy - anyone having participated in this thread having a feedback of at least 50, no negatives, are welcome to try out these wires - I'll send them to you via fedex ground, If you accept this offer you agree to be responsible for shipping them back to me or to the next person wanting to try them out whom will be accepting the same responsibilities, you also agree that you will not take them apart more than you are capable of putting them back together again.
As Always, Good Listening
Peter |
Kijanki
It is the only other Audioquest wire I have, did not check what insulation is supposed to be on it. But yes its a second clue.
As always, Good Listening
Peter |
Hi FI Store - but DH gate does no longer accept paypal, to me that would not matter anyway as they will be useless if you file a dispute for counterfeit merchandise, speaking form experience here.
If you just want to try them before you buy I can configure mine for Bi Wire and you can see if its the way you want to go - just send them back to me once you are done with them - I won't use them anyway and since its out in the open that they have been taken apart and may be fake its useless to try and pawn them of on anyone :-) not my bag anyway.
Good Listening
Peter |
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So last little tidbit on this subject - I got an email asking me to complete the order from DH Gate, logged on and found the option to IM with the seller directly. I confronted him about the issues already discussed in posts above. He claimed that he had no prior knowledge about the "Rockefeller 3" wire and to his knowledge this was "real" K2 wire So I asked him where he got the wire from he said he "got it from OEM factory they make cables for a lot of companies" - I asked what is the name of OEM factory he said "I cannot tell you that"
I actually think he was telling at least some of the truth - the real scam artist is higher up the chain.
As Always, Good Listening
Peter |
Manitunc
I agree with you - its definitely $ 380 well spent - the wire is well made, have good connectors and it appears to have the right geometry - in my system it sounds "lighter" than my Kimber 16TC which is custom made for me by the great folks a Kimber. For what its worth my "K2" are terminated in the "right" direction with the arrows on the internal leads pointing in the direction of the signal flow, and this really does not matter much, the way the wire is terminated determine the way of the directionality , the shield connected to ground at the amplifier end - however Im puzzled by this - it indicate that the wire is not intended for use with differential mono blocks like mine. Some folks my say that the way the internal conductors are spun - ie clock wise or counter clock wise for the negative vs the positive leads matters - I think not.
If you like the wires then that is all that maters, enjoy the music, sounds like you are :-)
"Part way through dinner the wife commented on how good the system sounded and I could see her getting distracted by the music as she got in the groove."
- can not be better than that.
As always good listening
Peter |
