Sorry, typos make this a little confusing!
I'm trying to get opinions on whether the Sabre chips have specific sonic traits that influence the sound of the DACs that use these chips vs. other chips. |
No. I have had about 40-50 different DACS through here over the past 3 to 4 years.
I always thought it was the DAC chip that dictated the sound. I found that was wrong. It depends on how that particular chip is used WITHIN the circuit. Many other factors influence the final sound quality.
I guess I could add the Sabre DAC chip "usually" smooths things out a bit, but other chips do this as well if not better.
As the old saying goes "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts". |
It depends on how you use the Sabre chip. In my experience, if you drive it with S/PDIF input it uses the internal reclocking, which mucks-up the sound IMO. If you drive it with I2S, it is quite pristine and nice sounding. I believe it avoids this reclocking when you use I2S. I have not found it to be any better than the chips from TI or Analog Devices however. |
I find there is a noticeable difference in sound between the dac in my Meridian MS600 (which I believe uses XMOS chips) and my Simaudio 650D (which uses Sabre chips).
The Simaudio dac has deeper, more articulate bass, slightly more treble emphasis, more pinpoint imaging, greater articulation, a wider soundstage and more body.
The MS600 has more bloom at the expense of less focused images, is a bit more ethereal, and sounds a bit more "organic" in the way it presents the music as a whole rather than calling attention to any particular component.
I wonder how much of this difference is due to the sonic signature of the chip sets? Clearly the Simaudio 650D is a much better built component with a much better power supply (the MS600 uses a switching power supply) and chassis (the MS600 benefited from extensive vibration control from HRS products). |
FYI, the Meridian MS600 is using an AD1852 chip (24 bits, 192 kHz). |
Interesting, you know over at Emotiva ,the design team hates the ESS Sabre chip. They claim it sounds awful.I myself don't know but do take a look at their website under digital and particularly the DC-1 threads.
Best
George |
Some Sabre DACs sounds dry, some sounds great. Gryphon Kalliope DAC has Sabre and for me it is The best DAC now on market. I had MSB Diamond, MSB Signature, dCS Vivaldi, EMM Labs DAC-2X, and many others. But Gryphon is The best DAC i ever heard. |
Interesting. I think many attribute much of the highly regarded analog sound of the Oppo BDP-105 to ESS Sabre chips.
db |
Auralic vega dac uses this chip and it sounds great, I guess emotiva is the real deal |
Don't know for sure. I am not for or against any good manufacturer ,that includes Emotiva.
I am thinking they could too,follow the "me too" approach and make their DAC with the Sabre chip and call it a day,and start selling. Right? Jump on the wagon.
Apparently the DC-1 is a good product especially for the money and they specifically decided NOT to use the Sabre chip. There are guys that compared the Oppo 105 to Emotiva Pro Stealth DC-1 and claim the DC-1 sounds better hands down.That's all I am saying.As for me I am using the Bryston BDA-1.
All the best.
George |
Yes.
I have heard a number of DAC's with a Saber, including some DIY jobs a guy wanted to sell.
The sonic signature is slightly over the top detail that can sometimes be overwhelming, some sibilance control issues and a cold analytic top end.
When I was listening to the DIY DAC's before hearing them a person there said - you have heard Saber DAC's before - what do you think we will hear. I said the above. Later he said - you were spot on - amazing. Its not amazing - you hear it when you have lived with such DAC's for a while.
The interesting thing though is despite the claims the chip is jitter immune the sibilance and top end issue virtually disappears when fed with a good source like an Off-Ramp. They are quite good that way - with just a slight trace of analyticality and detail that a bit obvious. IMHO the chip is not as jitter immune as is claimed.
Thanks
Bill |
It's all about implementation. I've used the Twisted Pear Buffalo DAC with 9018 Sabre Reference in multiple configurations of stereo mode, dual-mono mode, as a voltage source, and(soon) as a current source. Also with different degrees of sophistication in power supplies. Performance varies by configuration from very good to over-the-top. I doubt that many commercial manufacturers have tried all the possibilities. |
Stereophile measurements say the Simaudio 650D, which uses the E
SS Sabre chips, is pretty immune to jitter. Maybe Simaudio has other systems in play to handle jitter?
http://www.stereophile.com/content/simaudio-moon-evolution-650d-cd-player-measurements
What sampling output rate were you using with the off-ramp that you found worked well with the Sabre chip? |
'What sampling output rate were you using with the off-ramp that you found worked well with the Sabre chip?'
Back in those days I would upsample - don't do it so much these days.
Obviously since it performed pretty good with the Off-Ramp it can be in designs that don't have the usual issues.
Thanks
Bill |
I heard a Wiess Minerva yesterday for the first time. Very nice sound - nearly as good as the Killer I was hearing it against and better than a Playback Designs and about the same as the Phasure that was also there.
Of relevance to this thread is someone told me this was Sabre based. If so I couldn't really detect the Sabre signature - first Sabre based DAC I have heard like that.
The caveat is if true - I couldn't find any info it was Sabre based.
Thanks
Bill |
