Does removing anti-skating really improve sound?


I know this topic has been discussed here before, but wanted to see if others have the same experience as me. After removing the fishing line dangling weight from my tonearm I’m convinced my bass and soundstage has opened up. I doing very careful listening with headphones and don’t hear any distortion or treble harshness. So why use anti-skating at all? Even during deep bass/ loud passages no skipping of tracks. Any thoughts from all the analog gurus out there?
tubelvr1

Showing 4 responses by ct0517

Mosler666
What if we disregard anti-skating and let the cantilever/tonearm free itself from external counter forces. Wouldn’t we be giving a chance for the cantilever/coils to stay centered and perhaps to do a better job?

Mosler666 et al 

If your pivot arm has a straight arm tube. (Disclaimer - not responsible for any accidents this causes).

Take an elastic band 6 - 8 inches in diameter and place it around your cartridge body. ***NOT THE CANTILEVER*** obviously.

Pull out straight from the tonearm base.

You will get a good understanding visually, and a feel, for what is called the Force Vector - fancy name for this vinyl skating phenomena.

Notice how the tonearm wants to go toward the spindle. See how the elastic band bends - it represents the cantilever.

Now, take your cartridge, and straighten it out on the straight armtube,  and try this again.

The Force Vector - Skating phenomena no longer exists.

The elastic band "pull" simulates the pull of the groove on the stylus.

********************************

The skating inward phenomena is due to the offset position of the cartridge, and the fact the stylus point does not line up with the pivot point of the tonearm. That's the first reason.
  
The second reason is the overhang -discussed here already and elsewhere. Again force vectors exist which are not directly ahead of the stylus. The surface of the record is not moving straight ahead with respect to the stylus tip. This results in these force components directed ahead and toward the center of the record.

How much skating there is based on how big the overhang is.

IMO
Everybody is free to use antiskate or not use it. It's your cartridge and your records. I just feel that anyone selling a used cartridge that has not used antiskate, should say so in their Sales Ad - full disclosure.



On my VPI, (we know Harry doesn’t advocate anti-skate)

From the VPI owners manual

As mentioned earlier, the arm wire applies the anti-skating force. The degree of force applied can be adjusted, to increase anti-skating force give the connector a counterclockwise twist, unwinding the wires natural twist. Likewise, to decrease the force, give the connector a clockwise twist, winding the wires natural twist. Remember, the Lemo connector can only be "adjusted" in increments of whole turns. If it is not, its key will not line up with the groove in the receptacle 

When I used to be in closer proximity to buddies systems, we used to frequent each other. All of the systems , including mine with various pivot tonearms, (still own a Dyna) allowed you to hear, if you listened closely, to the two spots on the record where the stylus was lined up best with the groove, depending on the geometry you are using. Where the stars align for the pivot arm . 

For those few seconds over each spot the focus is definitely - clearer.

IMO - If your anti skate is set up - ok - you should be able to make out these two spots...I mean should you decide to listen in this technical way.

Now an interesting thing... 
 
One turntable where this was definitely not the case, was with a Technics sl1200, with grado black, that I used to loan out.
  
But still .....it sounded good;  which leads me to come to the conclusion that even if off a little, vinyl distortions with a pivot setup are "pleasing in nature" for the lack of a better word,  the technics sl1200 pivot arm still sounded decent.

It's not until you hear better, that you realize the setup is off, from the better pivot tonearm setup.

@Slaw

@ct0517 ,

It seems the quote from the VPI manual makes my point. A complete turn either way gives way too much counterforce to be useful.

I should have mentioned I use the string/weight anti-skate VPI provides.

Slaw
When I owned the 12 inch VPI JMW tonearm I found the stock wiring of the arm with no turn to provide sufficient push back outward - This was due to the shape, firmness, pliability of the wire - as can be seen in this link, one of my setups from years gone by.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KU9PAai5CX8bnfJ87

I agree doing a complete turn of the wire is not useful, way to much force, but still I could not figure out why VPI added the complexity of the string/weight, in later years, other than for marketing and demands from audiophiles. Some, maybe, who just did not understand the anti skating nature of the wire itself. 

Maybe this is a developed bias from my boating/fishing hobby, but my personal opinion is that a "Weight On A String" is a designer - manufacturer "Cop Out" - on a multi buck tonearm. My Dyna has one *^(

The slickest, best anti skate I experienced was on my Fidelity Research FR64s. Those that own that arm know what I am talking about.