2. tech-talk
  3. 991106809

does mixing kill the soundstage?

All this talk about "soundstage" gets me to thinking how in the world do we hear an accurate (or even close) soundstage on anything other than live, acoustic, performances recorded by just 2 mics with no mixing. Why would you even *hear* where a singer is if they are being recorded by a mic right in front of them that is recorded, most likely, seperately from anything else? They run all these different tracks (vocals, drums, guitar, whatever), changing the volume of each one to get the best *sound* Why would this not create a total mess? I guess I know nothing about how the recording process is done, but just off the top of my head it seems like almost everything would just be a garbled mess, which alot are, but some are not and I KNOW they are mixed somewhere down the line. Am I missing something? That being said how does one find good quality live, acoustic recordings that DO have a great soundstage? I listen to just about every type of music under the sun so I am not picky. I just want 50-75 good CDs that will send chills down my spine......
a71spud
bmpnyc
713 posts
 
Slartibart, Thanks for the tips.I'll check on those aspects. The mikes will be mostly Nuemann's. I once mixed to a 2 track Studer and felt it was the best I had heard. Many of the Ampex machines I used were noisier, but they were probably older models. I have used a Nagra once or twice and loved it. Good luck with
your 2 track purchase. My old Otari 2 track wasn't too bad, now that I think about it.
frap
213 posts
 
Slartibart, How much longer do you think we will be able to buy analog tape? When 3M stopped manufacturing, it was a real wake up call. Now I know the 499 and GP-9 Quantegy/Ampex tape formulation is the best you can buy, but other than BASF,(which I dont think is as good sonically, but boy do they know how to precision slit the tape!!!!)there is no one left. This is a pretty ominous sign for the future. What do you think?
Regarding Ampex vs. Studer, The ATR Transport, wins when Mike Spitz's mods at ATR Service Co. are applied. It simply is the lowest wow & flutter in the business. And then there's the incredible pinch rollerless design. Of course, as you know the 1/2" deck is 5db quieter than 1/4", so I can only imagine a full 1/2" width per stereo track. It must be devastatingly incredible. I cant afford to switch though, as 1/2" is already too much money, as you point out............Frank
a71spud OP
29 posts
 
Thanks to all who have responded (and for the positive marks too), it has been a real "ear-opener" for me. I am going to track down that Ry Cooder release before this weekend. It sure sounds like I should spend a bit more time looking for quality recordings to listen to instead of fretting about not having hospital grade outlets. Maybe that is why vinyl sounds better, they screwed around with the music a bit less. Technology can be a dangerous thing in the right hands......
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,217 posts
 
A71, any of the Water Lily label albums will have a natural soundstage with plenty of hall sound. Kavi Alexander typically records with tube mics and electronics designed by Tim de Paravinici. There's a series of recordings with V.M. Bhatt and various guest artist (Ry Cooder, Taj Mahal, Bela Fleck, etc.) A good example of multi-track synthetic sound is Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly". Roger Nichols is the engineer. Check out the mix on "Ruby, Ruby". An interesting hybrid sound is Manfred Eicher's ECM label. He records with a close mic technique, but still provides plenty of hall sound. Typically, the drums and piano are spread across the soundstage larger than real life.

There's nothing magical about any of the recording technologies. Talented musicians together with skilled engineers can produce great music and great sound with even the most basic of equipment.
slartibartfast
100 posts
 
Well, the good news about analog is that even though everyone thought it was going to die long ago, it is still the medium of choice when making high quality recordings. Just look at what everyone said about vinyl... it was supposed to be long gone and you wouldn't be able to get a turntable or cartridge but they are still alive and kicking. Furthermore, both the National Archives and the Smithsonian have said the best mechanism for audio preservation is still analog tape and that it has a much longer shelf life than digital media.

I would definitely parrot what Onhwy61 has to say about recording... Toys don't make up for talent. Unfortunately, the toys make it so easy to make a recording today that people don't always spend the time to make it sound great. Of course, if there is no talent its gonna suck any way you cut it.
More to discover