Opus88: you may search threads under my account(Danwkw). But I found the post has been edited by someone...I gonna post another one in AA under the topic of tubes.
Dan |
Opus88, it's already been posted in Tubes Asylum...
VBR
Dan |
Tim de Paravicini don't recommend us to use 6DJ8/6922 in PCC88/7DJ8 positions or vice versa. For details, please see another post "Interview with Tim de Paravicini at High End Audio Show"
I had tried to put E88CC in my EAR 88PB after the interview. The higher voltage lighted up the tubes with abnormal brightness and sounded strange. I had also tried to put PCC88 in 6922 positions and the sound was just twisted. I wouldn't dare to keep it that way for too long.
Dan |
I was able to compare EAR 324(all solid state) and 88PB(a hybrid JET and tubes)in my system. It was rather close in overall tonality, detail retrieval... of course, they have some major differences and my findings are as follows:
1) without internal SUTs(I believe it's the major source of EAR's sonic signature), the MM sections are surprisingly "rather neutral" in tonality(on the contrary, if someone gets used to tube warm of EAR 834), not overly warm or colored(the MM section only), able to reveal the subtle details of different recordings, in respect of transparency(only the MM sections) they goes hand in hand.
2) 88PB is as a whole lower in hum level and very stable for prolonged use as a tubed phono with more than 70dB.
3) 88PB can offer a bit more real-life body of the acoustic instruments with a thin touch of tube warm.
4) 324 is never harsh or thin sounding.
5) 324 is the better choice for someone who owns a lot of MM carts.
6) 88PB is the best if we want to drive the power amp directly from phono with limited budget.
7) PCC88 proves to be much more stable, much quieter(in hybrid design)than ordinary 6DJ8/6922.
I heard ARC PH-7, Rhea & Janus, Audio Valve Sunilda, EAR 912, Nagra VPS, and many others. Each design approach has its strengths and weaknesses and also pretty much depend upon our budget.
I wish this may help...
VBR
Dan |
I agree with Audiomax. Using external SUT for LOMC carts is not without disadvantages as we inevitably alter the minute capacitance and, especially, impedance loadings.
In brief, we have to use ultra low impedance cables/wires in order to minimize any negative effects on signal transmission. The ICs(I had to DIY one) to and from the SUTs also need to be as short as possible to maintain signal purity closer to the source.
Unfortunately, there are not much ultra low impedance cables/wires available for this purpose...limited choices bring limited fun for this hobby:)
When SUTs and phono are placed close to TT, interferences from motors and electronics may arise too...
Dan |
Nolitan
I was told by Tim those are NOS Ei (A-frame)using Philips Holland technology. Without comparison to Telefunken/Siemens, yes they sound quite good already.
Q: V1 & V2 seems like those have to be matched. How about V3 and V4 ?
They run in constant current source circuitry in which left & right channels pass thru each tube simultaneously from V1, V2, V3 then V4(the last one).
Brand may vary in the way we want. I usually put the best matched Telefunken in V1 & V2 (the first two positions) and mix with one Siemens/Philips/Ei in either V3 or V4 to fine-tune the sound I want.
VBR
Dan |
"...88PB is as a whole lower in hum level and very stable for prolonged use as a tubed phono with more than 70dB. "
It must be stressed that it was tested with maximum output level without pick-up signal. The noise and hum level of 324 and 88PB are, in practice, still regarded as "very low" and no problem at all in normal sound pressure and listening position.
BTW, a monitor grade phono amp, I believe, should be able to reveal any subtle details and information picked up by the carts. Such as any inherent pre-echoes, whether the master is an analog or a digital one, any TT/arm/cart resonances affecting the reproductions, the conditions of the TT/arm/carts, any misalignment of arm/cart, the cart rebuild causing any change of sonic signature, etc.
Sometimes when we upgrade to a better phono, we need to upgrade the TT/arm/cart simultaneously with no guarantee of success(to one's ear). "Hear more" doen't necessarily mean "sound better". Hear less may be more acceptable.
Spend more money for sonic setbacks...it's a cruel story but sometimes it's true.
Dan |
Opus88, I was referring to the higher voltage of all four PCC88/7DJ8 positions in EAR 88PB lighted up the 6922s with abnormal brightness and it sounded a bit strange(comparing to stock PCC88). I truly believe E88CC/6922s will shorten their lives in PCC88 positions as ascertained by Tim. Exotic NOS E88CCs generally cost much more than same brand of PCC88...it's simply not worth the try for prolonged use!!!
Please see another upcoming post here in A'gon "Interview with Tim de Paravicini" last year in which I talked to Tim face to face. Check the photo of my virtual system when I asked him whether we should use 6922 in PCC88/7DJ8 positions...his answer with his gesture!!!
I have never heard Tim uses 6922/6DJ8s in his top of the line products(912, 88PB, etc)which are only designed for PCC88/7DJ8, what is the source of your knowing? Please also read the above interview and let's clarify the issue.
VBR
Dan
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Opus88: Yes, the user's manual is in lack of some useful information usually provided by other manufacturers.
Nolitan: the internal SUT proves to be a decent one. I used it for MY Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent BC, ZYX Omega-S Low, Shelter 901, Denon DL-103SA,etc, with rather satisfactory results. Comparing to other exotic SUTs (may cost more or less another 88PB now!!)and to be very very picky, the internal SUTs in 324/88PB is marginally weaker in bandwidth, detail retrieval, micro-dynamics, soundstaging...but, pls remember, it's NOT fair to compare this way. EAR's internal SUTs "usually" delivers a tad of transformer's warmth, a bit more body of instruments, particularly suitable for LOMC carts which sound just a little bit cool or thin, IMHO.
Shsohis: Agree. 324 is definitely a solid state phono, revealing but never analytical and harsh in the systems I heard. I believe Lyra Helikon with 324 should be a very happy marriage;)
VBR
Dan |
You are welcome. But remember my opinion is just another opinion. There are a lot of decent phono amps on the market. As long as you understand their strengths and weaknesses, sonic signatures or compatibilities(no matter how you call it), I believe you will soon get what you are looking for.
Good luck
Dan |
Lewm, after reading your post, I browsed for Art Dudley's...
As mentioned in previous posts, I also experienced some hum problem with the 324 that I couldn't possibly get rid of during audition. The hum and overall noise level was NOT really annoying when listening. But it seems to coincide with AD's measurements of hum at 120Hz.
Unfortunately I didn't try a wide variety of MM/MI to prove if AD's concerns on higher THD at low frequency was valid. "Grainy" wasn't enough to describe the 324 I auditioned in my system. "Definitely a solid state" were.
88PB didn't have this hum problem at all. In fact, it is still being extremely stable and, up to this moment, among the quietest tube phono(actually a hybrid design) I have heard in respect of hum level, tube rush and background noise for any phono with more than 70dB of gain, though without much flexibility in capacitance choices and impedance loadings like 324.
In a nutshell, I prefer 88PB to 324 in my system.
Best regards
Dan |
Mostly using MY Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent, ZYX Omega-S, Shelter 901, Denon DL-103SA & Shelter 201(MM).
VBR
Dan |
The synergy is so ideal with 88PB in the combo, always offers the magic of tubes and neutrality, stability of hybrid design using JET, PCC88s and output transformers.
With Ultra Eminent, the presentations being so dynamic, transparent, full of natural decays with authentic transient speed(provided playing the best analogue recordings from 60's and 70's). Poor recordings are still poor, though.(mainly using 1-6 ohm ext. SUT)
With Omega-S, being smooth, lush sounding, so energetic, full of body & emotions with a tad midrange sweetness. (using 1-6 ohm ext. SUT and 4-ohm built-in SUT in EAR 88PB)
With Shelter 901, a bit in lack of the details and natural decays comparing to Ultra Eminent and Omega-S. But the overall tonal balance still regarded as "very good". $1,200 is a steal(using 20-ohm ext. SUT)
With Denon DL-103SA, in comparisons, in lack of micro-dynamics and details, bit unnatural vocal siblings, "relatively" inferior in high/low extensions, exciting mid-low punch. But still regarded as one of the best MC carts, within $500, with excellent trackability and being so sturdy and stable on old-worn records. (using 40-ohm built-in SUT within EAR 88PB)
88PB has done its job well by always revealing the subtle sonic differences the carts and unleashing their potentials. The best phono within $5,000 I heard in my system and may compare to much pricey phono products.
VBR
Dan
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Lewm, we should investigate what other gears and the characteristics of the listening room in which Ken Kessler auditioned for that particular review. Do you have any ideas as I couldn't find anything of it yet? Art Dudley seemed to have used one MM (Linn Adikt) without much implications on audible distortions, right?
IMHO, if 324 is mated with EAR tube amp, Audio Note pre amp, or some Class A solid state(e.g. Pass Lab XA series) power amp, its solid state personality won't be any problem at all. This may not be true if it is hooked up with VTL TL-7.5(tube), Siegfried(tube) and Rockport(ring radiator tweetors)...
To me, 324 sounds like a solid state as it really is, but it's NOT thin sounding nor harsh. But be cautious when someone uses certain ceramic or metallic speakers or maybe some high efficient horn speakers in a very "lively & spacious" listening room.
All in all, it was a versatile solid state phono amp which "still" justifies its price tag, and targeted for MM/MI die-hard fans who seem to have no other choices within the same price range.
Best regards
Dan |
Nolitan,
I have MY Sonic Lab Stage 302(for 1-6 ohm) and Phase Tech T-3(for Shelter 901, it's cheapy miracle match!)
VBR
Dan |
"Grainy" is always a sign of poor synergy which represents somehow something wrong in the system. This could be too much transistors in the chain, or a wrong choice of speakers and cables, etc.
With OTL amps and Quad ESL, I truly believe 324 should deliver a bit more transparent, extended presentation than a Linn Linto.
To lower the risk(i.e. uncertainty), Lewm may buy a used one.
VBR
Dan |
Typo: ...OTL ampa and ESL speakers(Not Quad ESL). |
Nolitan, here's they are:
V1, V2 & V4: NOS Telefunken PCC88 <> bottoms
V3: NOS Siemens PCC88 (branded Telefunken)
I handpicked from my collections and matched them closely by myself. The sonic improvements over stock tubes are stunningly great! |
Those NOS Ei(A-frame) were no longer produced. Tim didn't tell me where to source them. Look for Amperex Philips PCC88 (A-frame) you may find they looks very similar.
Q: In what ways does the tele better the stock tubes even just the two front tubes ?
A: I am now using Telefunken in V1, V2 & V4, Siemens in V3. Everything becomes more precise. Good recordings become more authentic. Poor recordings are still full of recording defects. Accuracy in VTF, VTA/SRA, alignment become more significant. Differences between carts becomes more apparent. More important, I feel like sitting in a concert hall when playing some really good stereo recordings(mostly from 60's & 70's).
VBR
Dan |
Thanks for sharing, Nolitan.
In my system, I do prefer the two transducers(cart and speakers)play the major role in establishing the so-called sonic signature(that's why I may keep buying more carts to "refresh" my system). In this case, turntable, tonearm &, hopefully, phono amp have to be as neutral & revealing as possible.
That's why I am confident when we optimize our LP setup, the carts I gave comment upon will perform very close to my descriptions.
I have my bottom line for so-called "neutrality and revealing"(if there are any actually), that is, at least 70% of my favorite records have to sound ënjoyable, musical, full of emotions and authentic.
Each of us may have his different approach. To me, the audio bug grown by top-end carts always bite me harder...
Dan |
Nolitan, actually I agree with you. OK, to make it clear...I have three separate TT/arm setups and any three of my carts ready to play at all time.
Shelter 901 & Denon DL-103SA is mainly responsible for records with poorer surface conditions. (Both are sturdy and stable on old-worn records)
ZYX Omega-S mainly for less ideal recordings or whenever I want a bit smoothness and sweetness. And it's a little bit forgiving for poor recordings.
MY Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent mainly for the best recordings with the best surface conditions. If "set up & step up properly"(it seems not that easy for all inmates, though), the cart & phono combo is just the most "musically authentic" one(comparing to live performance, of course) I have ever heard. IMHO, MY Sonic Lab (including its OEM products for Air Tight)deserves vinylists' serious attention!
This's how I achieve what I want the presentations. Again it's a different approach...;)
Dan |
>>>I used to have the EAR 324. I would not say that the 324 is very quiet. It is somehow quiet, but it is not very quiet. When the 324 was in my system, I could hear some hum if I turned the volume all they way up, without music of course. There was no hum with the volume dial set to normal listening levels, but I didn't feel comfortable with it. <<<
>>>The 324 does not sound rolled off at the frequency extremes to me or anything like that, but unsurprisingly it does sound most transparent and neutral when used in MM mode, skipping the step-up transformers...<<<
Isanchez & Zaikesman, thanks for sharing. My experience with 324 was consistent with your above comments.
Best regards
Dan |
