For the ultimate in control of crossover slopes check out the Behringer DCX2496 digital crossover for a little more than $300.
Adjustable delays for all inputs/outputs allow correction for arrival time differences.
Four different mono and stereo output operating modes
Butterworth, Bessel and Linkwitz-Riley filters with slopes from 6 to 48 dB/octave.
Jim C. |
Would consider the JL F212 also. Good Luck and keep us posted. |
I hate to tell you this, but your speakers, good as they are, are a bit too small for your room. 18' x 36' is Maxx territory, and would be a stretch for Sasha W/Ps.
The fact that you have a 14dB drop from 1KHz to 200 Hz (upper bass) indicates that it's even a stretch to correct with subs. IME once you have the subs filling in an octave above 100 Hz they start getting directional and it complicates getting a good blend.
I think you're overall on the right track--run your mains full-range and blend the subs in to fill in the bottom octave or two at most. Going up to 200 Hz is filling in almost 2-1/2 octaves, however. You need speakers that can take you flat to at least 100 Hz and preferably 50-60.
However, if you don't want to spend Maxx money, consider Sasha W/Ps and a pair of JL subs, such as two Fathom F113s. They're fast, powerful, clean, and deep enough to add meaningful bottom bass and can play loud enough to fill that rather large space. But I think you need something bigger than the Sophias so you aren't rolling off so high. A pair of 10" woofers isn't much for filling out a 16' x 36' room. A quad of properly loaded 8"'s (Sasha) would do better (plus, of course, a pair of subs). |
Captain, I whole heartedly agree with adding 2 subwoofers
as a stereo pair. I run Wilson Watt/Puppy 7's with 2 JL Audio Fathom F113 subs(from 36hz down, ) and would not like to be without them. I highly recommend the book and DVD from Jim Smith "Get Better Sound" a wealth of knowladge about speaker placement, room acoustics, subs and more, a very complete guide for serious audiophiles.
Worth every penny, it does take time.
Jim C.
jimc555
|
Thanks, I have had problems with my room in the past as well. I need to experiment more with speaker placement and room interaction. Thanks for the tip on OmniMic. |
That probably means you have some real bass problems. It might help if you get a better measurement system, like the Dayton Audio OmniMic from Parts Express.
You need at least one sub, you might need two but I'd buy one first, and it looks like a good low-pass frequency is at least 120Hz, maybe higher. Maybe as high as 200Hz. You'll have to experiment. A suck-out in the 100-250Hz range makes everything sound thin. |
1/3 octave warble tone at -20db |
What sort of source were you measuring? Pink noise? White noise? Warble tones?
It looks to me like your entire bass range from 200Hz downward has problems, and low-bass is out to lunch. |
It is for me...without question. |
I made some Sound Pressure Level (SPL) measurement from my listening position. I set 1KHz to 90 db then measure the SPL at all the other frequencies at my ear level listening position.
1KHz 90db
200Hz 76db
160Hz 78db
125Hz 78db
100Hz 70db
80Hz 63db
63Hz 63db
50Hz 69db
40Hz 68db
31.5Hz 59db
25Hz 56db
20Hz too low to measure, probably lower than 50db.
If you look at 200Hz, SPL is pretty steady to 100hz, then a dip between 100Hz and 63Hz. 50 Hz and 40 Hz were pretty close to 100Hz in SPL, probably because the Sophia II port tuning at that frequency. So sub frequencies 40Hz and 50Hz look pretty reasonable. So it looks like we are probably talking about a crossover around 35Hz to 40Hz. What do you think? is a sub worth it for just those frequencies? |
At the Stereophile show in 2002 Wilson used their Wilson Watt Puppy 7 speakers with The Wilson Watch Dog sub.
The Wilson Watch dog sub blended in really nicely with the Wilson Watt Puppies. You didn't even realize that Wilson was using a sub on the Watt Puppies.
What Genesis sub did you have?
My friend has the Genesis 900 sub which is a really good sub for music. |
One doesn't but a stereo pair does. Takes some work to get it right but I think you'll like it. |
Because of room modes causing peaks and dips in any speaker's low frequency response, increasing the number of bass sources smooths out the in-room frequency response. Your speakers can be flat to 20Hz, but if you can't position them for minimizing room modes what you actually hear may not be very good. It is also advantageous to have an effective level control for bass frequencies. So in my mind it is a rare room that doesn't benefit from one or two subs. This is just simple physics. I'd rather position my main speakers for best imaging and move the sub(s) around to get the bass right. |
Captain W,
I do the same...but over time have learned as i have gotten to know my room and system...each time i add a new cable or component...the changes required to my sub take less and less time to figure out...and i tend not to have overly powerful bass anymore. and i admit having owned Velodyne consecutively since '95...i do enjoy my bass.
If you no longer own the sub...that is different then. For me...it is worth it...but that would definitely not be the same for everyone.
Guess the right question is: what are you really looking for in your next move? True Full range frequency wise...or fuller soundstage? They are related but not necessarily one and the same. |
I actually do not have the sub or the Aerius anymore. I am a little wary about ruining the tight bass on the Wilson's. I also know that with me, I tended to exaggerate the sub frequencies at first which ended up bloating that bottom end. It would also get a little fatiguing with that real low bass response. I would then realize how exaggerated the low frequency was and lower it way down. I've tried to equalize with a sound meter as well, but as most of you have probably already realized with those long sound waves, a small change in listening position could result in large db swings on the meter. I would have to make an investment in a sub to try it out, any suggestions? My speakers are on the short wall and the RM-9 is about 125 watts per channel powering the Wilson Sophia 2s. Any recommendations on what would integrate well with my systems?
Thanks |
Jfrech has a good point if you wish to go for multiple improvements. Since you own the sub already (Genesis?)...it's 'free' other than your time/effort to try to blend the sub with your existing Sophias, and i would vote go for it...i dont think you will regret it providing the set up is good. Good luck and enjoy!! |
Hi, I might take a different take than lloydlee21, not that anything he has said is wrong! Just a second perspective...what model sophia's do you have? Might be time to move to Watt Puppy's, they have a little better bottom end (well little better in several areas)
You seem to have a great system! congrats ! |
Captain W...congrats. Great speakers. I would definitely suggest the hard work involved in the blending the speakers should be worthwhile. I have done it with my old Wilson X1s...i run the sub in parallel to my main speakers (the main speakers fun full range). And then i cut off my sub above 41hz. Your speakers will be different, but my sub is in for repair and i am missing it!
YMMV...good luck and enjoy your system! |
