Honest, guys, this issue needs to be put to death. Whether "they" warp or not, and I don't doubt that wood tonearms are susceptible to warping, some wood tonearms are among the best I've ever heard, to include the Talea and the Reed. Vacuum tubes inevitably wear and change specs over time; do you wish to avoid vacuum tubes too, as a matter of principle? (Halcro, I know you prefer SS; that's not the point.) Cartridges wear out and change over time even while we are adoring them. Audio is an unstable hobby in general.
In the real world, modern tonearms are made by guys who do understand these properties of wood. Then the tonearms go to live in our air conditioned/heated living rooms; they don't sit outside in the rain. How much warpage over how much time is prohibitive? Does anyone really believe that a wood tonearm is warping at a rate that will ruin alignment and geometry within any period of time that makes this a real problem? Any evidence for that? Guys who don't like wood tonearms or who have some ax to grind regarding whatever metal tonearm he or she worships like to carp on this issue of "warpage". It's not a real world, real time issue. I don't really give a shit if my Reed has warped a tiny bit in the next 50 years. I have a wood Grace tonearm (which I just keep around for sentimental reasons) that looks by eye to be as straight and true as a piece of steel, after 30 or so years of living in a controlled humidity indoor environment. There are some theoretical advantages to a wooden arm wand in terms of dissipation of energy that can be said to be superior to metals, but I am not here to say that wood is superior to metal. I am just saying that wood is in the picture as an excellent material to use to build an arm wand, if the maker knows what he is doing. I have heard both carbon fiber and ceramic arm wands; they suck. |
I deliberately over-reacted to stir up some responses. In fact, I totally agree with Mike. In my personal experience, Schroeder, Reed, and Durand tonearms are or can be just wonderful sounding. And they do last. (The dirty little secret is that Durand has lately eschewed the use of wood in their TOTL design, the Telos. Mike probably knows this.) So it's more fair and valid to target one's criticisms to specific tonearms, rather than to tar and feather the whole bunch of them. By that token, I apologize to lovers of carbon fiber and ceramic. (Ceramic? What tonearm is made of ceramic?)
Tony, good luck aligning your cartridge within "microns". That ought to keep you up at night.
Lohanimal, I never did think you were taking a pot shot; some of the responders were, though. |
Redglove, It is I who must take exception to your ad hominem attack. I made no "nasty swipe" at anyone here, but you have made a nasty swipe at me. As to making rational fact-based arguments, no one here, least of all me, has denied that wood tonearms have the potential to warp, depending upon how they are made and upon the environment in which they are subsequently used. Beyond that, the issue is "how much" and does it affect alignment such that wood tonearms need to be frequently re-aligned. I think I addressed some of those issues, but my only data set is my personal experience. Since there is no "science" of wood tonearms per se, the rest of it is just my opinion vs the opinions of others. I actually enjoy trading pros and cons with those whose opinions differ from mine. And I cannot apologize to you for anything I've already written here or anywhere else on the Analog Forum. If the very word "shit" offends you per se, you're entitled to feel that way, I guess. |
I guess some of us are getting a woodie from this intense conversation. Now THAT kind of woodie does warp over time for sure. (That's just to be funny, Redglobe. I hope "woodie" does not offend you.) It might be helpful to go back to the question posed by my friend Dopogue; has anyone here actually had an experience wherein his wood tonearm warped or changed shape to such a degree that there was a misalignment detectable with a protractor (even at the micron level)? If so, I would like to hear details.
Vetterone, I did not know that the Schroeder LT is made right here in the great American Northwest. That's cool. It's on my wish list.
Tony, I don't know why you take such a purist approach. All materials have plusses and minuses for this use. If one takes steps during manufacture to ameliorate the negatives of a particular material, such as sealing wood or impregnating it or whatever, why does that negate the argument that wood tonearms are not or need not be problematic? By the same token, then, it would be out of bounds to dampen a solid metal arm wand so as to minimize its tendency to develop resonant peaks (if such were the case). And Vetterone has correctly pointed out that most metals will also warp to one degree or another, in response to heat and humidity changes. |
Syntax is an audiophile who is widely experienced with top quality equipment, so I take his opinions seriously. If you read this, Syntax, can you comment on instances in which you or a close friend (if you have never owned a wood tonearm yourself) found problems with a wood tonearm due specifically to the effect of humidity? That would be helpful. My agnosticism regarding wood tonearms is based on my personal experiences with two very good ones that after a couple of years have caused no such problems in my system. Alignment remains stable within the accuracy afforded by Dertonearm's Uni-Protractor. The temperature in my listening room remains between 68 and 72 F, year round, and the humidity is controlled by air conditioning. Beyond that, I certainly do not hear a difference in sonics between winter and summer. |
Tony, Notwithstanding all the other provocative elements of your last post, I don't think anyone has "attacked" the OP. The OP's rhetorical question elicited a lot of strong opinions on either side, but no one has directed any venom in his direction. Can you say where this really happened? I think the question he raised is a perfectly valid one, worth discussing in a civil manner. (Yes, I can be faulted for not being so civil, once or twice. Mea culpa.) |
I know how to calculate the heat generated, but there are a few assumptions one has to make, and I am not so sure I know how to incorporate the assumptions. If you know the coefficient of friction between vinyl and diamond, and if we know the force per unit of area and the velocity of the stylus, we can calculate the energy generated. Then that energy can be assumed to heat both the vinyl and the diamond. So we need to use the first law of Thermodynamics, Q (Quantity of Heat) = m*C*dT, where m = mass, C = heat coefficient, dT = change in Temperature. Since diamond and vinyl will have two different values for C, we can make a guess as to which material would be heated to what temperature, assuming room temp as a starting point, by assuming that the energy will be apportioned between the two materials as dictated by their different C values. Molecular biologist or "molecular virologist" here, Swampwalker. But I don't know what this has to do with wood tonearms. |
Should have written "I know how to calculate the temperature elevation", for my first sentence above. Q is in joules, a unit of energy. Thus Q. would be equal to the kinetic energy generated by friction between stylus and groove, a function also of velocity, because neither the stylus tip nor the groove can dissipate energy any other way, except as heat. (But that's the rub; some energy is probably dissipated in "stretching" the groove walls, too.) Being in biology has nothing to do with this; I never studied physics except in college, so I hope the above is correct. |
Geoff, I have to side with the others; I think you'd be looking like a baked potato after even 10 min at 445 degrees F.
Probably the best way to determine the temperature developed at the stylus contact point in the vinyl would be to point a laser-based temperature sensor at the contact spot, during play. One interesting thing that fell out of this particular discourse is that most likely the outer grooves heat up more than the inner grooves during play, because the angular velocity of the stylus tip, and therefore the kinetic energy that has to be dissipated, is greatest at the outside edge of the LP surface. But on the other hand, the groove undulations may be less tortuous at the outer grooves, thereby reducing friction compared to inner.
Anyway, I agree with Ilikmangos, as one might imagine. |
