Erik, let's assume that room acoustics and wall current are done right.
I would say that my 8"/1" with 120 watts/ch Redgum integrated amp go down to low 30s in a pretty good fashion. Vifa drivers. But that's still only $1.5k speakers with $1.7k integrated. I can imagine that the same speakers would do much better in every respect with, say, class A Gryphon or older Rowland or Lamm hybrid, and many others. Not to mention better speakers with better drivers. |
Hi Tim. I would think that 8" driver is overall a good compromise. 7" is not enough for bass and 10" won't do for midrange. The unattainable ideal is one driver, right? Well, big electrostatics, but that's different, we are talking about dynamic speakers. |
The speakers cost $1.5k 17 years ago, and the amp cost $1.7k 16 years ago. |
I got floorstanding speakers, use Polycrystal spikes and Boston Audio graphite tuneblocks for speakers under the spikes. Wooden floor. |
Focal Utopia or Grand Utopia would probably be my choices, but not for medium size room, or no. |
Orpheus10, I understand. One aspect of living in a rented apartment is that you can or have to move within a year. Speakers that work in one apartment may not work just as well in another. Two way 8"/1" would work in just about any smaller/medium size room. Besides, I don't really need to feel the bass the way you imply. But yeah, when listening to Helborg/Velez first track of Ars Moriende album, I wish the rig could go lower and better when going lower. I wonder what would it be like if I had, say, Lamm hybrid monos and tube preamp with the same speakers? Still, 8" woofer, at least this one, would probably be not good enough for this kind of music, but you never know until you try only suspect. |
With my 89db speakers and 120 watt/ch amp almost any recording sounds intolerably loud if I dial the volume control in past 11 o'clock. Normal position is from 8 to 10. Also, most recordings have a lot of distortion. Yes, you can hear and feel more distortion at 11 than 10, but I don't have top level electronics. We are talking about audiophiles not "chest pumping" whatever you want to call them.
Size does sometimes matter but still it is quality over quantity. 8" woofer can be very capable, just give it a current. |
I was responding to the post that got removed while I was typing. |
Orpheus10, I think you are taliking about the perception and processing of those harmonics that you mentioned. Within the context of this thread, the designer of the drivers must be very advanced in terms of the ability to accoplish that. In other words, he/she must also be a 'musician' and audiophile, in addition to scientist and engineer.
When art and science come together then we get a true outcome. |
Yeah, good stuff should cost a lot, no objection from me. If someone claims that his $5k one 8" driver can do what others cannot, I'll say okay let's hear it.
As an example of something completely different, I just bought $400 5.5" custom knife mostly for the kitchen, though it can be used for many things. And you know what, it's a big bargain, it cuts thru everything like hell and edge holding is incredible. The man who made it is considered to be on top five list of American bladesmiths.
Great speakers should cost at least $25k or so, I would think. That's the reason why I am not thinking for now to upgrade what I have. I would need about $10k to get a great used pair, anything less would give me some improvement but no satisfaction. |
Nothing will change. Room is a small box compared to concert hall or even to a jazz club. It means it is a very different environment.
I am sure that all participants here heard enough of live music. Live music can sometimes sound terrible too, so can poorly made and tuned instruments. |
If you listen to big orchestra and opera you are in trouble from all directions beginning with the recordings and the size of the room. Any system that can convincingly separate and reproduce 100 instruments? They don't even quite know how to record it. Understandable, that's very very tough. Suppose they managed to get it close, you will need half a million dollar or more system in a giant room to make it more or less believable. One can still enjoy it under more achievable circumstances provided the expectations are not high. |
Phusis, that's the task for a driver designer to find the best compromise possible.
Orpheus10, yes coherence is much more important than frequency extention. That's one of the reasons, perhaps the most important one, of why one set-up sounds right even if not at all perfect and another one wrong even if it could sound impressive for the first minute.
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Let's say medium size room is 300sqf with 10ft ceiling. Everything is challenging when you want things to be done right. |
Soundsrealaudio, yes I meant two way speakers, but we can expand the discussion, I think it could be interesting to many audiophiles and music lovers.
I agree of course about bass quality and its blending in with all other frequencies. The sound must be coherent not in pieces. |
Yeah, not too many have that card but still quite a number.
Don't remember his name, there is a French designer who makes great drivers used in some esoteric speakers. That driver goes down to about 40hz and up as far as you can see or hear. I think, it's 10" driver but not sure. The quality of that driver really impressed many people. I even watched an interview with him. Basically, he is a one man operation. Old world craftsmanship. |
Yeah, that's it, PHY. Bass is not the strongest virtue of those drivers.
Classic Audio people sound very serious to me. Never heard their speakers and not going to for now - I might like them a lot and I am quite certain that I can't afford them. They are big too. |
Whatever else they might be, they won't do bass. Without sufficient bass no speaker can be called phenomenal. With a pair of great subs, then it may be quite a sound, I don't know.
And we are not talking about prices and value, cost is no object in this discussion. |
But since you mentioned monitors, I read that LaHave speakers, I think I got the name right, from Canada sound extremely good, but again not enough bass. Bass is the most difficult thing to get right, as I understand it. Not that the rest is easy, it is not. |
If I wanted to add subs I too would go with at least 10", but they would have to be fast enough. I keep hearing praise of JL Audio subs, and REL is well-known as a generally good choice for music. |
You wanted to say 8 inches not 8 feet, I guess ! |
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