Do Streamer only devices really impact sound quality?

I agree, don't have to spend a fortune on streaming equipment to hear differences. I've been streaming for many years, started with most basic, laptop to dac with Foobar, been incremental improvements all along the way.

Based on my experience with a variety of streamers over perhaps ten years of streaming I've come to conclusion streamer can make as much or more difference than dac.

Streamer is really the heart of streaming setup, does the rendering and has large influence on timing. Having both optimized is the difference between digital sounding digital and analog sounding digital. Audition one of the top tier streamers like Aurender WE20SE, Taiko Extreme, etc against multitude of mid grade streamers in high resolving system, I guarantee you'll hear massive difference.

Example above is extreme example, but even in less optimized systems you'll hear worthwhile gains. As stated previously, multitude of posts testifying to value of streamers, we're not all delusional. Per usual, one can presume many things, only actual experience is educating.

@soix +

Resolution, transparency not the most  difficult aspect of sound quality to achieve with streaming. Yes, noise, both external and self generated can enter at many points, but even with less than best streamers relatively high resolution, transparency can be achieved assuming one has decent dac.

My experience has found timing greatly impacts digital sound quality. Get the timing right throughout entire streaming setup and the closer one gets to positive traits of analog. Correct timing allows largest soundstage, most stable imaging, and most importantly, greater sense of ease, relaxed musical experience. Jitter is what gives digital it's bad name, and the reason some maintain vinyl superior to digital. New custom build streamer I recently purchased was built with parts and components specifically chosen for lowest latency, low latency means less jitter. Using the same dac as with prior streamers, greater levels of resolution/transparency has certainly been achieved, but sense of ease or analog like sound qualities has been revelatory.

I observe ever decreasing levels of measured jitter in digital components, certainly large measure of why digital continues to improve.

Another critical thing to remember, you can never get back what has been lost earlier in streaming chain. No dac can clean up noise or jitter created earlier in chain, just as optical with it's total galvanic isolation can't restore whats been lost in regard to noise, the jitter manufactured within streamer has already contaminated the bit chain, even the finest asynchronous clocks in dacs can't restore whats been lost prior.

There is a reason why the best streamers attain higher levels of sound quality, lower latency/jitter and self generated noise. If dacs could really restore whats been lost streamers would all sound the same.

Finally, I presume digital at some point in future will finally surpass the very best analog/vinyl. Audiophile and/or digital engineers are paying close attention to these latency issues within digital components, Ever decreasing jitter will be achieved in future components, this along with ever decreasing noise will further improve digital sound quality.

Individuals use usb because it has best SQ vs other inputs/outputs available to them. I've observed many trying coax, AES/EBU, I2S inputs on dac, finding them inferior and returning to usb. Theoreticals are one thing, hearing is another. USB continues to be used because both manufacturers and consumers find it preferable to other formats.

As for software vs hardware, I've heard great variability with both.

My take is optimized streaming only achieved when all components, software, software and hardware configurations are optimized. Everything matters. Based on reports of others I observe great correlation between optimized streaming setups and great sound quality. The most experienced streamers report their findings, others follow their recommendations and experience better sound quality in vast majority of cases.

@soix Do a survey, how many using usb vs other inputs. I had Singxer SU6 in order to try I2S with my present dac, a couple other individuals with same dac tried I2S, returned to usb after less than satisfactory results, I didn't even bother, sold the Singxer. USB inputs are optimized in many dacs, preferred by many. Do you have proof that other inputs superior to usb on all dacs? I didn't think so.

@tk21 Good points.

Another thing that needs to be pointed out. The optimal mode of transmission depends a lot on the quality of the rendering in streamer. Some streamers take great pains in optimizing usb in use of high quality clocks and power supplies on dedicated circuit boards, ,others take usb directly off relatively noisy motherboards.

Point is not to generalize about inputs/outputs, each case is different. Research both dac and streamer for optimized ports and purchase compatible components. USB has some theoretical disadvantages, but implementation has been continually improving, blathering objective statements only further confuses people.

@tk21 You got it, context is everything.

@adasdad Not going to speak for ghdprentice, but my custom build streamer has been directly compared to top tier streamers such as his Aurender, Taiko Extreme, as well as to many lower tier, and it rightly belongs in that tier as both previous owners only sold after comparing and purchasing Taiko Extreme (and this prior to JCAT LPS I power it with).  The top echelon streamers pay extreme attention to noise reduction via top quality power supplies, jitter reduction via latency optimization and rendering via clocking and noise reduction of various ports. So, these are some of the theoretical reasons  for improved sound quality.  And then we have the listening portion, some may not consider that to be valid, but between what others report and what I've experienced with streamers, sound quality is extremely variable, at least on par with dacs. I can only say, try various steamers for yourself, assuming your system has sufficient resolving powers, the value of top tier streamers will be patently obvious.

I also have the ability to directly compare various protocols via drop in PCIe cards from Pink Faun and JCAT, top flight cards are available for network, coax, I2S, AES/EBU, USB. Presently using JCAT net XE to Sonore setup (FMC to USB), sound is simply sublime! I could stay here for the remainder of my life, never heard higher resolving, greater sense of ease with digital. Had to greatly upgrade my vinyl setup to keep up. Perhaps I'll compare other protocols over time, simply not motivated at the moment.

I'd only say believe those with top tier streamers, they are indeed hearing what they claim to be hearing, they are not delusional! I don't care about the damn theoreticals, audio is for our listening pleasure, not meant for some listening bot or textbook.

@lollipopguild  Amen. The one nit is high level of detail can co-exist without fatigue. This is the plateau I finally surpassed after well over 30 years of trying. Fatigue in the digital realm is caused by jitter, I'm really beginning to believe humans can detect extremely miniscule levels of jitter. Some claim we've already attained levels of jitter below threshold of hearing, don't observe any evidence for this.

@jjss49  No doubt!

One has to address both noise and jitter in order to get optimal streaming sound quality. In most cases one will have treated noise issue first since more easily addressed with more affordable devices. If still residual fatigue this very likely due to jitter. Jitter is more difficult to address, add on timing devices can't correct timing, latency issues within streamers/dacs. The jitter has already contaminated the signal, band aids don't close the wound, you could say the same about noise contamination.

So, the point is to do the least harm at each and every point of streaming chain. Per @lollipopguild every single component in chain is important and needs to be optimized. And I do observe those claiming to hear least fatiguing, most optimal streaming quality do have top tier components across entire streaming chain. I observe the best quality streaming comes from the least complex streaming setups using these top tier components, no band aids or add ons. The one exception to this is the single add on of the network devices such as Muon, in my case JCAT net XE. This seems to be critical component as routers certainly noisy and seem to be effective even for those using audiophile switches. By the way, adding audiophile switch was single worst addition to streaming setup ever experienced, YMMV.

There is interesting post here with individual going to second modem/ISP service to exclusively serve audio system. Modem direct ethernet connection to streamer and remote device such as laptop or tablet. Perhaps this setup negates need for network cleaner/filter devices?

Lost my chain of thought here. I agree harshness, sense of hardness can be attributed to streaming chain and/or system. So, assuming one has rid themselves of this and still has fatigue. This is very likely fatigue due to jitter. I eliminated vast majority of harshness/hardness some years ago, eliminated minute residual over the years through streaming and system tuning. Still remained this slightest sense of fatigue,  like excess precision, a bit analytical presentation, very hard to put finger on although I began to hear it as timing issues over time. New custom streamer goes in, great attention to noise and latency issues. Revelatory is only word I can apply to what I'm hearing, much greater sense of ease, I simply relax into music, its like the music has slowed down and come into its own natural flow, far more like the top tier vinyl setups I've heard. There has been substantial reduction in noise floor as well, but the newfound sense of ease is the revelatory thing. I attribute this to great reduction in jitter vs past streamers.