2. tech-talk
  3. 174039-94878

Do I need a 20 amp or 15 amp power conditioner/surge protector

I have a Dan D'Agostino Progression Stereo amp that has a 3,000 VA power supply transformer coupled to 400,000 microfarads of power supply storage capacitance.  It's a true triple down amp rated at 300 Watts into 8 Ohms, 600 Watts into 4 Ohms, and 1200 watts into 2 Ohms. I'm using a pair of Magnepan 3.7i's which are rated at 4 Ohms. 

One of the odd things is that the amp comes with 20 amp power cord that has a 20-amp IEC connector at the amplifier end and a three-conductor 15 amp AC plug at the other end. The instruction manual tells you to plug it into a 15 amp wall receptacle. 

After a recent scare, I decided I should get some protection as well as clean up the AC being fed to my components. My LAD explained to me that the minimum I should get is the Niagara 5000 because it's rate for 20 amps, but when I asked why does my amp need that when it's plugged into a 15 amp receptacle, he said that at high loads, the amp may be pulling a little more than 15 amps and power conditioner rated at 15 amps would restrict that and the audio quality would suffer. 

So, here I am trying to figure this out, I mean, my LAD may have point since the amp manufacturer supplies a 20 amp cord, but tells you to plug it into a 15 amp receptacle, but I just don't know. For the price point I'm looking at, I've narrowed it down to either the Furman ELITE20 (20 amp) or AudioQuest Niagara 1200 (15 amp). Do I really need a power conditioner rated at 20 amps, or will one rated at 15 amps be fine? Also, is it really possible under heavy load my amp could actually pull more than 15 amps out of a 15 amp receptacle? Very confusing... Thanks for any clarity you can provide. -cheers!

 

 

128x128jimmy_jet
ditusa's avatar
ditusa
1,887 posts
 

As per jea’s calculation, you really need a 30A circuit to run Progression amp without limiting its peaks.

I concur!

IMO: The Progression amp should have a 250 volt 20 amp dedicated circuit. That will give you 5000 watts.

jea48
4,446 posts
 

@jimmy_jet said:

I see what you’re saying and was thinking the same thing, it logically isn’t adding up, especially when the Dan’s manual says "plug into a 15 amp receptacle", yet, they provide a 12 gauge 20 amp cord with a 15 amp male plug for the wall end...?

 

How many Dan D’Agostino Progression Stereo amps would Dan sell if the cord had a 20 amp male plug? Most of the wall outlets in our homes are 15 amp. (In wall branch circuit wiring is 14 gauge copper connected to a 15 amp breaker.) Good thing Dan spent the money for a soft start circuit on the amp.

(Note: Two or more 15 amp receptacles can be installed on a 20 amp branch circuit per electrical code. A duplex is two.receptacles)

The amp probably sounds ’fine’ on a 15 amp circuit fed with #14 gauge copper wire. It more than likely would sound even better on a 15 amp dedicated circuit fed using #12 copper wire. Or even a 15 amp dedicated circuit fed using #10 solid copper wire.

The wall outlet could still be a 15 amp duplex receptacle outlet per electrical code. If you wanted to use a 20 amp duplex receptacle outlet then the circuit breaker would need to be a 20 amp to meet electrical code. You can still use the same power cord with the 15 amp male plug. The only difference between the 15A and 20A plug is the neutral blade on the 20 amp plug is turned 90 degrees with repect to the Hot blade...

FWIW a 15 amp circuit breaker will pass short quick current draws of 30 amps all day long without the breaker tripping. It will handle a continuous connected load of 15 amps without tripping.

 

Pass said:

"choke off current and squash dynamics."

It’s not a continuous draw of current Pass is talking about. 14 gauge wire is more than big enough for the continuous current draw of Dan’s amplifier. Using a bigger wire gauge is for dynamics.

3,000 VA power supply transformer

Fed with #14 gauge copper wire...

Any other loads on the 15 amp circuit? Any idea the total length of the #14 gauge branch circuit wiring from the electrical panel to the wall outlet the amp is plugged into? The length of the wiring can make a difference too.

.

jimmy_jet's avatar
jimmy_jet OP
25 posts
 

@jea48 -thanks. Regarding:

FWIW a 15 amp circuit breaker will pass short quick current draws of 30 amps all day long without the breaker tripping

I think that's what my LAD was alluding to when he said the amp would sound better with the Niagara 5000 because it's rated at 20 amps - because transients are capable of pulling more than 15 amps from a 15 amp circuit as you explained. It's starting to make sense now. I still think the Niagara's are overkill for my purposes and I don't "think" I need a line conditioner because my system is silent at idle - all I'm really looking for is a surge protector/voltage stabilizer that will protect my power amp and not degrade it's current sound/performance. As for the rest of the gear on my media room circuit, it's all pretty low-level stuff like turntable, SACD, Blu-ray, network transport, and pre-amp. -cheers

jea48
4,446 posts
 

@jimmy_jet

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. JMHO, a 15A branch circuit, which I assume is a convenience outlet branch circuit consisting of 14 gauge copper wire, is not doing the Dan D’Agostino Progression Stereo amp justice.

If it were me I would have a 20 amp dedicated branch circuit installed. Circuit minimum wire size for a 20 amp circuit is #12awg copper. If it were me I would pay the extra cost and have #10awg solid copper installed.

Type of branch circuit wiring to have installed?

Read pages 16 thru 36.

An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing

 

Jim

 

.

 

ditusa's avatar
ditusa
1,887 posts
 

@jimmy_jet,

This just came to mind

The 240V Option

Some high end amps can be switched over and run on 220 volts and I recommend it may sound better. The transformer primaries and the core seem to run slight more efficiently yielding lower impedance so the supply might appear slightly ‘stiffer’ to the amp’s audio circuits (always a good thing). Because the amp is now running at twice the voltage but half the amps (current) the wall wiring looks twice as thick to the amp as it does at 120 volt (ohms law). Now the amp makes even less audio noise on the line and it then rejects its own line noise better. The 220 volt outlet can be a standard 15 amp with 10 Ga.. Wire up to 80 feet then 8 gauge beyond that.

For the 220 volt lines, the electrician may, or may not know about a NEMA receptacle and plug number that is the same size and form as our common Edison duplex 120 volt receptacle but the wide blade of the plug is on the opposite side as the 120 volt duplex. Hubble or commercial Leviton works fine for 220 volt, and the 6-20 series looks less industrial in your home.

It is Nema plug number 6-20P. ‘Stay on line‘ is a good source but your electrician may like a local supplier.

BE SURE TO CHANGE OVER THE AMP INTERNALLY IF YOU DECIDE TO RUN 220 VOLT !

Last Trick – Twist the conductors

Lastly, you might ask him to twist the conductors one twist every 6-8 inches or so. Each line should be alternately twisted relative to the one next to it. This prevents any coherent coupling between them. Keep them away from each other by minimum 4 inches. It is perfectly OK to cross them at a right angle.

Final Word

If your electrician has any concerns about all this, be aware he is always concerned about CONTINUOUS current draw and rates everything and splits up the loads like the air conditioning and the electric dryer for the available amperage. Please explain to him that we are designing for incredibly short peak current pulses and we need the resistance back to the utility as low as possible for best amplifier performance. The continuous draw is negligible from an electrical standpoint. 10 gauge wire is the largest size that will fit into a wall outlet and as far as I know does not violate any codes but you and your electrician are responsible to be sure this is true in your state, county, and city.

Be sure that your speaker cable is at least 10 gauge. You should consider 8 or 9 gauge for speakers that are below 87db sensitivity, and/ or 4 ohms. Some manufacturers say, ‘our 14 gauge behaves like 10 gauge, etc.’, this could be true but I go for the real measured gauge.

Now, without exception over the last 12 years, comments from those that have done the above heavy gauge wire wall power mods say there is audible improvement in dynamics while making the sound even more detailed, yet much more relaxed with dark backgrounds leaving only the notes and music. I was very surprised the first time I did this house power mod. I did not expect the mid-range and the highs to clean up and get more coherent as much as they did. Of course bass and dynamics are better as you would expect with better current delivery.

 

link to page: https://www.msbtechnology.com/faq/house-power/

Support

 Share
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  

51

© 2022 · MSB Technology Corp.

More to discover