Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?

I use the isoacoustics stands tested in the article. The difference they make in my two rooms on second level with suspended plywood floors are clear and distinct. Anyone can hear it.

Same stands in rooms on foundation level make no difference.

Same results with auralex subdude platforms I use under bottom ported Ohm Walsh speakers.

So like most things effectiveness of products depend on the context used and magnitude of the problem (floors with "give" versus inert rigid floor) which varies greatly It all depends as usual. Measurements or not.

Ethan stop by my place and we’ll have a listen as proof. Cheers!

In lieu of that,  in rooms where I hear a difference I can jump up and down and feel and hear floors vibrate.   In ones where I don't hear a difference jumping does nothing.  That proves the vibrations are transmitted to the floor and in some cases (not all) can be heard.

Your tests in one room do not prove anything about another either.    You might not hear or measure anything in one yet do so in another.   As you know no two rooms are usually created equal.  that goes for the floors as well.


Does that make sense?

No, Central Maryland.

The only gear I have to do any tests is my ears. So I know its possible.  It is not subtle at all, perhaps one of the clearest and most obvious differences/tweaks I have heard.    The jumping test I indicated shows that it is at least possible as well. I suspect its fairly common even.

I don’t expect you to believe me though given your criteria for acceptance.

Its most apparent listening with my OHM Walsh speakers that have downward firing ports but I hear it as well with small Triangle and Dynaudio monitors in 12X12 room on second level. In same size room below at foundation level, I do not hear a difference.

That should at least make sense. Whether you believe it can be heard or measured otherwise or not is another story.

Also I would say that my explanation could account for what you measure in a single room but your measurements in a single room cannot account for any others.

In any case I hear what I hear and know what I know and I’m sure there are others with similar experiences. Bring your measuring gear on down and we can perhaps both learn something together. Or try some more tests on your own. New discoveries can happen anytime.

It isn’t hard. Anyone can try and prove to themselves. Obviously your mind is made up. All I can say is you are definitely wrong on all counts in this case so I am not impressed. Better keep on testing. I am not in the business so I have no time or desire to prove anything to anyone except myself but I stated my case and will discuss and share findings happily and honestly with anyone else who happens to care. If you claim to be an "expert" then the burden is on you for your own benefit to make sure that you really are. My advice would be to run some more tests because you are missing something of significance so far it seems.

Well, if if you think we’re delusional then its up to you to prove it not us to prove to you we are not. Becasue frankly I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think there.

I’m just sharing my findings on sound that I have found useful that others might find useful or not. It’s not a life or death matter.

Whatever. It all depends really. Of course you just think you know all the answers and it’s cut and dry based on your limited test results.

The egos are big on this thread. You can bank on that one if nothing else.

Also I’ll use my time as I choose. Do not need your approval or guidance. 

I proved my case or at least offered good evidence. If you jump on the floor and hear a corresponding sound or feel corresponding movement guess what? Movement caused the floor to vibrate and make a sound.

Or play music with a good subwoofer or other speaker with good bass and use the aforementioned water test or just listen and see/hear. Its not rocket science.

In fact its a much easier and cheaper problem to address than room acoustics/room nodes. An Auralex subdude platform costs less than $100 and is very effective when needed. Maybe that's what Ethan is afraid of?  Cheap competition is a bugger.

Check the testimonials on Amazon or other sites. Are all those people deluded? Ethan apparently thinks so.



Case closed.

My advice would be worry about yourself not others and be a better listener (to what people say not just the music).

Well we’re making progress. At least Ethan now acknowledged that speakers can "shift" the floor. Now we’re talking! I fixed my issues in my house easily and inexpensively so I’ll leave it to Ethan to fix it as needed for his customers. At least there is some hope there now! I have no doubt he’ll be doing some very careful measurements of how much shift in what kind of floors and relating that to what can be heard and/or measured and passing on his research costs to any customers that might care enough to pay.  Meanwhile I'll continue to provide my 2 cents here for free..

They are his competitors. Use of their products lessens the need for his services.

No bingo. EM waves and photons are not synonymous. You can look it up. Google is your friend. The devil is in the details. Its been discussed in great detail here before but apparently for naught.

OK now were deluded and ignorant.   What a POW!

Thread has really jumped the shark.  Too bad,

Sure go ahead and explain  including why it matters here.    You're like a guy lost at sea and trying to figure out what to do by counting the stars.

Its whatever you think it is.

No actually its a lighted clock hanging on the wall above all my other cool audio toys.  Yes those ARE in fact photons staring you in the face.

Well I asked a question and you swung and missed.   Strike 1.

Clearly and practically vibrations are worth some concern when dealing with mechanical transducers like phono carts and speakers. Also with devices like tubes that can clearly be micro phonic. Inherently less so if at all with most ss components. I would even entertain that vibration could negatively affect a cd optical drives ability to function optimally to some extent. Thats pretty much it. Amazing such a long thread full of mostly showboating and not able to constructively focus or agree on anything.  

Obviously its not a big deal.  if it were it would have been made apparent by now.

So it would seem.  Too bad.

Geofkait alone going on and on and fear mongering about esoteric theoretical things does not make them a big deal. Just because something can happen does not mean it will. He needs some disciples to help spread his gospel. Also maybe do something besides talk and repackage others stuff to try to sell here.

Not impressed with Ethan’s attitude methods conclusions or approach either.

Guess that leaves us where? No better or worse off than when we started.

At least Atmasphere, though operating on/offering a different paradigm than most, presents useful information in a reasonable manner with no condescending attitude normally so people can decide and digest on their own to what extent it really matters to them. Plus he has years of experience actually testing out and making things that clearly back up what he says whereas Ethan is still measuring away trying to figure out how things really work and seems bent on convincing others that he has figured it all out better than all the rest already somehow. He too could use a few disciples to help spread the gospel. Atmasphere has plenty of those.

Anyone interested in best digital sound in general should forget CD players and start ripping and streaming.    I find things are much more consistent and robust that way.  

Good luck with that.  

I can't even find someone who can measure my feet in a manner that  guarantees comfort.  Just a basic fit to help toss out the really bad candidates but not enough to determine the final choice.

Hopefully  the salesman can tell  me which one fits best based on the measurements but not take it personally if I end up disagreeing.

Actually neither of the extreme viewpoints is very complimentary to this hobby.  The fun is in sorting through the nonsense however one may do it and getting to the meat of the matter ie putting stuff together that makes good sound that is pleasing to the listener.    Music is an art built on the foundation of science.   Science alone will never account for everything.   Pseudoscience can pretend to but its fake science not real. 

Yes and if the earth explodes surely our sound quality will be affected as well.

There go the insults when no good response otherwise...

The interesting thing about this thread is no longer the original topic but the differences among participants and how normal things are presented from extreme viewpoints.

Ethan thinks high end audio and audiophiles who embrace it are all delusional and ignorant. There is some truth to that perhaps in some cases but clearly Ethan’s viewpoint is extreme and does not account for reality observed by most.

Geofkait as usual plays to high end audiophile paranoia and fears that something is missing or not right no matter what and sells colored dots and Teleportation Tweaks to prove it.

Most others seem to fall in the middle somewhere.

To Ethan’s credit he at least seems willing to discuss things with other experts like Atmasphere whereas GK always holds his position 100% no matter what and attacks and degrades anyone who challenges them.  He also is attempting to apply science whereas GK mostly applies pseudoscience with absolutely nothing to back it up except talk and reselling other peoples stuff as high end audio products to anyone who might care.

Its sadly like a little microcosm of the world in general and how self-important folks with extreme positions and viewpoints tend to dominate the news and discussions.

Ok.  Don't spin em too hard either.  It causes bad vibrations.

Who is this Spaceman you are so obsessed with?

My two cents as a 40 year technology professional who only dabbles in audio as a hobby these days is that its always all about how noise and distortion is effectively kept to a minimum and more ways than ever to tackle that beast cost effectively these days.  No individual or entity has exclusive rights to a secret sauce.

The rest is mostly personal preferences which differs for each but has nothing to do with science and technology solving a problem better for the most part.

Also I will cast some lots in Ethans camp though its a bit narrow-minded and say that room acoustics are perhaps the first and primary thing to consider before during and after buying any home audio solution. If you get the acoustic fit into the room right to meet your needs its pretty clear sailing these days from there.

One’s logical fallacy does not preclude those of another.  It's a logical fallacy to assume that.

Yup, some humility is always a good ingredient in any discussion.  Its just good business.

Atmasphere help me understand the artifacts you talk about. Is this related to the fact that human hearing is not flat but more sensitive at certain frequencies as shown here or something else?

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

I can understand that if music occurs at frequencies where the ear is most sensitive it would have more impact/effect. I understand the rules of human hearing as depicted here. Does this show what you are saying?


This says music noise or distortion, whatever occurs  at 4 kHz Is of greatest consequence..

The chart also shows mostly harmonics of instruments at 4 kHz. Are these the harmonics you are talking about?

Ginseng and ginger for example are reknowned for their medicinal value. You can look up the commonly found benefits and decide whether or not they might be of value for whatever ails you. Many others as well.

Putting any unnatural chemicals and/or toxins into your body is something to always avoid unless needed. Stick with mainstream herbal supplements if a safer boost of some kind is needed if at all possible.  Try exercise  (get those endorphins flowing) yoga and/or meditation perhaps.   There is little or no downside there.

Its your choice not mine. Pot is legal in some states. If that’s what floats your boat then have at it. Why must everything with you be contentious?

Myself I am not a fan of smoking and inhaling the toxins that result. You even warned about those (toxins associated with the thing you are taking) earlier.   But if the benefits outweigh the disadvantages in any particular case, and it s legal, then good.

GEoof you are very paranoid.  have a nice day!

Interesting.  CBDs have some overlap in advertised health benefits with other herbal medicines.   

I suspect many conditions are interrelated.    For example whenever physical ailments are alleviated stress levels go down and that generally has a positive effect on general mental health.

Interesting stuff.

Wolf there is that but there also is some science to back it up in many cases.   

It's a lot like esoteric tweaks.   Some make sense some do not and individual mileage will likely vary regardless. 

Good point.